Cuyahoga County Sin Tax

[RonG]

You also have had a ticket price freeze for a decade. We forget that the inexpensive ticket is a benefit, rather than a birthright. To think the fan doesn't benefit from a naming rights deal is very short-sighted.

In no way shape or form did I imply anything that you posted, however its hard to charge the going rate when you put a shit product out.

 

[Soda]

In no way shape or form did I imply anything that you posted, however its hard to charge the going rate when you put a shit product out.

If I mistakenly took your comment, my apologies. I thought your statement was that the owners are taking the City to the cleaners through the naming rights deal. They may be taking the City to the cleaners in a standard agreement for NFL stadiums, but this naming deal doesn't do a whole lot for JH3 as the value of those rights were definitely factored into Lerner's selling price.

 

[KI4MVP]

if the city didn't build the stadium, there would be no Cleveland Browns.

If there wasn't such a great lease on the Q, who knows if Dan Gilbert buys the cavs. Since buying the cavs he spent a bunch of money renovating the Q. He also brought Monster's hockey to Cleveland, which is likely only there because of the lease on the Q. He's also brought jobs to downtown Cleveland outside of sports in opening a quicken loans branch in Cleveland and bringing a casino to Cleveland. Both of these businesses brings tax revenue to the city of cleveland. The cavs/monsters/casino brings out of town visitors to Cleveland. Business owners get revenue from those visitors. Some of those business are inside the Q and the casino, some are outside.

Without sports teams I would have probably visited downtown Cleveland less than a handful of times since moving to Ohio 16 years ago. Instead I've been there hundreds of times.

 

[RonG]

If I mistakenly took your comment, my apologies. I thought your statement was that the owners are taking the City to the cleaners through the naming rights deal. They may be taking the City to the cleaners in a standard agreement for NFL stadiums, but this naming deal doesn't do a whole lot for JH3 as the value of those rights were definitely factored into Lerner's selling price.

Its all good, I understands your points. I just always thought it strange the cities weren't involved in selling the naming rights as they own the buildings.

 

[KI4MVP]

Its all good, I understands your points. I just always thought it strange the cities weren't involved in selling the naming rights as they own the buildings.

the naming rights are given to the cavs owner as part of the lease, I assume the same is true of the browns stadium.

 

[RonG]

the naming rights are given to the cavs owner as part of the lease, I assume the same is true of the browns stadium.

I understand it just saying I don't agree. Just an opinion.

 

[natedagg]

No need to have the OP shed light because I addressed this.

If you read the ordinance for the original sin tax, you'll see that all of the money encumbered through tax is held in an account, separate from any other funds. The pro teams in City-owned structures (who manage the day-to-day operation of the facilities) have a dedicated list, available to the public, of allowable projects that the money can go towards. A couple of examples would be: building handicap ramps, fixing stairways, upgrading bathrooms, etc. Teams must present their projects and the vendors who will do them to Council (County and City, I believe) and it is up to those citizen reps to decide whether the projects should be funded by the sin tax or by the team. The funds never have nor ever will be "misappropriated". Also, if you actually look, you'll know what the money goes towards months in advance.

Edit: b00bie brings up a point that seems to be glossed over by sin tax detractors. These properties are the responsibility of the City of Cleveland and Cuyahoga County, so improvements the sin tax money is dedicated to are going to need to happen at some point. If you vote to shoot the sin tax down, you're essentially voting for the City/County to dig into their general fund (that's already scheduled for some kind of spending) to fund the essential renovations the sin tax was set-up to address. Wake up.

Wake up? Go fuck yourself. We are in here asking some questions, making some comments, trying to learn what the heck is going on. I live 3000 miles away. I wonder why such "essential renovations" are needed in stadiums that aren't that old, and why they are costing what appears to be more than I would have thought. How do those costs compare to other ongoing renovations for stadiums of comparable age? To clarify, these are points of curiosity meant for a discussion, not an opportunity to condescend.

 

[Soda]

Wake up? Go fuck yourself. We are in here asking some questions, making some comments, trying to learn what the heck is going on. I live 3000 miles away. I wonder why such "essential renovations" are needed in stadiums that aren't that old, and why they are costing what appears to be more than I would have thought. How do those costs compare to other ongoing renovations for stadiums of comparable age? To clarify, these are points of curiosity meant for a discussion, not an opportunity to condescend.

Ok. I'll go fuck myself. Not to mention that the "Edit:" side of things is completely off the topics you were discussing.

Asking questions isn't the same as making false assumptions and presenting them as facts. "My issues are" isn't presenting a question. Douche.

 

[joebialek]

sell the stadiums to the highest bidder

 

[AZ_]

sell the stadiums to the highest bidder

Even if the financial burden fell on you (which it doesn't), could you really not afford that extra four cents per pack?

 

[RonG]

Even if the financial burden fell on you (which it doesn't), could you really not afford that extra four cents per pack?

What difference does it make if we can afford more taxes? That should only be a tinny part of any equation when it comes to taxes.

 

[AZ_]

What difference does it make if we can afford more taxes? That should only be a tinny part of any equation when it comes to taxes.

But again, the burden doesn't land on you.

There is no evidence to suggest this is affecting the price of the items being taxed, but falls on the buyers and seller of those items instead.

This tax has almost no effect on the local taxpayer.

 

[RonG]

But again, the burden doesn't land on you.

There is no evidence to suggest this is affecting the price of the items being taxed, but falls on the buyers and seller of those items instead.

This tax has almost no effect on the local taxpayer.

I wasn't addressing this particular tax, but your statement "Even if the financial burden fell on you (which it doesn't), could you really not afford that extra four cents per pack?"

 

[Surge]

You choose to pay the tax when you buy your cancer-sticks.

Or you could take a stand, don't buy the heaters, and hopefully never get cancer at the same time! Your classic win-win.

 

[joebialek]

well?