Cuyahoga County Sin Tax

[Simon]

Why do people think there is a tax increase to this....?

 

[Huber.]

Why do people think there is a tax increase to this....?

Because people like Joe Bialek don't read into stuff. American's hear the word "tax" and freak out.

 

[CornerThree]

What a sea-word.

 

[joebialek]

vote no

 

[DJTJ]

I'm guessing this is the same dude who writes on the Cleveland Scene site? Ha.

 

[CornerThree]

Ban the troll

 

[Hurl Bruce]

Haven't read a thing in this thread, but the money's going to come from somewhere, so might as well make it from the sin tax.

 

[CornerThree]

This is copy pasted to like 8-10 forums if you Google the first post. Obviously a trollcunt

 

[AZ_]

vote no

 

[Simon]

sell the stadiums to the highest bidder

Something tells me you don't give two shits about the sports teams here, and only care about the stuff that is being taxed.

This is mostly to help keep the city of Cleveland stronger, keeping our sports teams here. This Sin Tax is suppose to generate money into the city. The stadiums, itself generate money into the city with the games, concerts, events, etc.

Vote YES!

 

[Sumac13]

I look at it as a tax for having a team. You want a team in your city, you pay a tax--rightly or wrongly. Perhaps this is a lazy assumption and there are other and better ways to fund the building and renovation of stadiums. I don't know the issue well. But to expect teams to fork out all of the expense is not realistic, for it is too easy for them to find another city willing to cover the cost of building the stadium and a portion of renovation/maintenance. For those that say "vote no", I am interested in hearing in alternative methods of funding stadium construction--other than have the team pay. I have yet to hear a compelling alternative. Realize that stating that the teams can just leave isn't an acceptable alternative to the sin tax for those that want their sports team to remain. A compelling alternative choice needs to be given the voters if you expect them to vote no.

I don't buy the argument that stadiums off much of an economic boon to a city. Or if so, I would argue that the impact varies by stadium. The Q has 41 games a year (660k attendance) plus is used for a number of other events, including concerts throughout the year. Progressive Field has 81-2 games (1.5M+ attendance), which covers nearly 22% of the year (but that time span is concentrated). Browns Stadium (550K attendance) has only 8 games plus a couple pre-season games. So, that only gets used less than a dozen times a year. I cannot see where the economic impact of Brown Stadium would be anywhere near that of The Q or Progressive Field. I am too lazy to look it up, but I am curious to know how much each stadium is due to receive.

 

[Soda]

Got my mail-in vote. Voted yes. Didn't even do as much research as I usually would; thanks for making the decision easy, joe.

 

[Maximus]

sports stadiums that do not produce anything but a fleeting moment witnessing the passing of a football, the dribbling of a basketball and the throwing of a baseball so that such a minute tidbit of diversion can be enjoyed by all.

Cleveland isn't Manhattan Beach. It can be quite depressing at times actually. :chuckles: So i'd argue that the diversion of having the Browns, Tribe, Cavs, Monsters and major concerts is pretty important for the people of Cleveland.

we don't care if the teams up and go somewhere else

Who is "we"? Cleveland was a ghost town 20 years ago. It's made a remarkable resurrection that's still gaining steam. If the sports teams packed up and moved overnight, dozens of businesses would close within 90 days. IF we didn't have any pro sports teams then East 4th street & West 6th Street wouldn't exist as we know them today. The Wolstein project would never have happened. The casino wouldn't have been built. The many hotels that have opened wouldn't have been built. The dozens of apartment buildings and condo complexes would never have been built. The thousands of people that live downtown would still be living in the burbs.

It's also too lazy to say that the Browns only play 10 games, the Cavs only play 41 games and the Indians 80+ a year. Browns stadium also has Tim McGraw concerts, soccer games, Chesney concert, NCAA events, etc. Quickens Loan Arena has 210 events scheduled this year - hockey games, concerts, Disney on ice, circus, etc. Also, think of the thousands of people that go downtown with no intention of going to the games on game day...they are just down there to be part of the atmosphere. They are spending real money in the bars, restaurants and hotels.

The Q, Progressive Field and First Energy Stadium have over 320 events per year. That's why downtown Cleveland seems so alive again. That makes us attractive to companies looking to relocate. That makes people want to move downtown. That makes people actually want to visit downtown. The trickle down impact of having these teams is enormous. Think of all the jobs that were created to build and maintain the stadiums and that work at the 320 events per year. Think of all the jobs that were created to work at the bars, restaurants, parking lots, hotels, etc. Without our sports teams, Cleveland would wither and die. To keep them here, you have to stroke them sometimes...you have to pay to play.

Lastly, it's not even a new tax, it's an extension of what we've been doing for 25 years already. Alcohol and tobacco will not go up in price if this passes. IF it fails, alcohol and tobacco will not go down in price either. IF it fails, the public is still on the hook for all major repairs of these venues. We will then have to come up with the lost alcohol and tobacco revenue and write a check for a new roof at the Q, for example. It would be idiotic to vote against this thing.

 

[DJTJ]

I can honestly say, I've never gone downtown if I wasn't going to an event because I have no reason to. Max absolutely nailed it.

 

[Soda]

Cleveland isn't Manhattan Beach. It can be quite depressing at times actually. :chuckles: So i'd argue that the diversion of having the Browns, Tribe, Cavs, Monsters and major concerts is pretty important for the people of Cleveland.



Who is "we"? Cleveland was a ghost town 20 years ago. It's made a remarkable resurrection that's still gaining steam. If the sports teams packed up and moved overnight, dozens of businesses would close within 90 days. IF we didn't have any pro sports teams then East 4th street & West 6th Street wouldn't exist as we know them today. The Wolstein project would never have happened. The casino wouldn't have been built. The many hotels that have opened wouldn't have been built. The dozens of apartment buildings and condo complexes would never have been built. The thousands of people that live downtown would still be living in the burbs.

It's also too lazy to say that the Browns only play 10 games, the Cavs only play 41 games and the Indians 80+ a year. Browns stadium also has Tim McGraw concerts, soccer games, Chesney concert, NCAA events, etc. Quickens Loan Arena has 210 events scheduled this year - hockey games, concerts, Disney on ice, circus, etc. Also, think of the thousands of people that go downtown with no intention of going to the games on game day...they are just down there to be part of the atmosphere. They are spending real money in the bars, restaurants and hotels.

The Q, Progressive Field and First Energy Stadium have over 320 events per year. That's why downtown Cleveland seems so alive again. That makes us attractive to companies looking to relocate. That makes people want to move downtown. That makes people actually want to visit downtown. The trickle down impact of having these teams is enormous. Think of all the jobs that were created to build and maintain the stadiums and that work at the 320 events per year. Think of all the jobs that were created to work at the bars, restaurants, parking lots, hotels, etc. Without our sports teams, Cleveland would wither and die. To keep them here, you have to stroke them sometimes...you have to pay to play.

Lastly, it's not even a new tax, it's an extension of what we've been doing for 25 years already. Alcohol and tobacco will not go up in price if this passes. IF it fails, alcohol and tobacco will not go down in price either. IF it fails, the public is still on the hook for all major repairs of these venues. We will then have to come up with the lost alcohol and tobacco revenue and write a check for a new roof at the Q, for example. It would be idiotic to vote against this thing.

But TAX!!!!!