Dion Waiters Traded

[Maximus]

Let's trade one of our most talented players because he yells for fouls?

THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID! Jesus Christ, talk about pulling something out of context.

Screw this. I'm trading myself...peace.

 

[Triumph36]

So then it becomes worse? At this point in the season, who fucking cares? Ok, so by season's end Kyrie and Dion really hate each other, so what? You can still move Dion then.

And btw, moving Dion to make Kyrie happy is not a road I want to go down. You guys are asking to create something in Kyrie that can't be changed.

but what do you think will happen to his value in the meantime? you said you don't want to move him for a guy like barnes, ok. so if we let this extremely rocky situation play out for the remainder of the season, do you think his value will be higher or lower than it is now?

it's not moving him just to make kyrie happy. yes, that is part of it, but i also kind of doubt the other, lesser players are all that happy with dion's behavior either. he is acting like an entitled diva without playing anywhere close to warranting it. can the same be said for kyrie? sure. but he isn't out there getting kicked out of practice or acting like an immature douchebag off the court. if dion doesn't want to grow up, bringing in a different coach or gm or dumping kyrie isn't gonna change his mind.

though, i guess we're gonna find out just how much of an impact trading dion will actually have since it seems inevitable.

 

[Kouki]

 

[Nom]

Is there really a Kyrie and Dion feud? It seems like they are each independently immature and have their own issues - but do they actually have issues with each other?

It just seems like one of those narratives that started somewhere and took off without a ton of evidence.

 

[RTrees]

THAT'S NOT WHAT I SAID! Jesus Christ, talk about pulling something out of context.

Screw this. I'm trading myself...peace.

It's true, I was exaggerating at your expense Max.. please don't go! lol.

But it did dominate your post earlier. AAYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

 

[Soar]

I think for me, a few things bother me most about the Dion situation:

1) I think it is very likely we are selling him at a tremendously low value right now.

2) The chemistry issues with Kyrie from a playing standpoint should have been obvious before we drafted him. Two young kids, who play basically the same position, and have wildly different personalities does not sound like a match made in heaven.

3) The locker room chemistry issues should have also been somewhat foreseeable given the problems Dion had at Syracuse.

4) Why do I feel like if we trade him, he will shit on us the rest of his career?

 

[Cashius X]

I think for me, a few things bother me most about the Dion situation:

1) I think it is very likely we are selling him at a tremendously low value right now.

2) The chemistry issues with Kyrie from a playing standpoint should have been obvious before we drafted him. Two young kids, who play basically the same position, and have wildly different personalities does not sound like a match made in heaven.

3) The locker room chemistry issues should have also been somewhat foreseeable given the problems Dion had at Syracuse.

4) Why do I feel like if we trade him, he will shit on us the rest of his career?

Because he will.

All he needs is the right environment (good head coach, veterans that will break his bad habits, etc.) and he'll become a great player.

 

[GreasySpread36]

Why do I feel like if we trade him, he will shit on us the rest of his career?

Cleveland fans always think that the guys their teams get rid of will blow up somewhere else. See Trent Richardson, Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow Jr, Franklin Gutierrez, every ex-Browns quarterback, etc. With the exception of Brandon Phillips it really hasn't happened.

I'm not worried about Dion turning into a great player somewhere else. I don't think he's ever going to be a very efficient scorer. I see his ceiling as Corey Maggette or maybe a healthier Larry Hughes, tbh.

 

[CavsFTW]

Cleveland fans always think that the guys their teams get rid of will blow up somewhere else. See Trent Richardson, Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow Jr, Franklin Gutierrez, every ex-Browns quarterback, etc. With the exception of Brandon Phillips it really hasn't happened.

I'm not worried about Dion turning into a great player somewhere else. I don't think he's ever going to be a very efficient scorer. I see his ceiling as Corey Maggette or maybe a healthier Larry Hughes, tbh.

 

[CosmoKramer]

I think for me, a few things bother me most about the Dion situation:

1) I think it is very likely we are selling him at a tremendously low value right now.

2) The chemistry issues with Kyrie from a playing standpoint should have been obvious before we drafted him. Two young kids, who play basically the same position, and have wildly different personalities does not sound like a match made in heaven.

3) The locker room chemistry issues should have also been somewhat foreseeable given the problems Dion had at Syracuse.

4) Why do I feel like if we trade him, he will shit on us the rest of his career?

Because he would make it his personal mission. And you can't even blame him.

 

[216]

Cleveland fans always think that the guys their teams get rid of will blow up somewhere else. See Trent Richardson, Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow Jr, Franklin Gutierrez, every ex-Browns quarterback, etc. With the exception of Brandon Phillips it really hasn't happened.

I'm not worried about Dion turning into a great player somewhere else. I don't think he's ever going to be a very efficient scorer. I see his ceiling as Corey Maggette or maybe a healthier Larry Hughes, tbh.

Every player on this team that the Cavs drafted within the last 4 years should develop into a much better player than he is currently.

 

[Cashius X]

Cleveland fans always think that the guys their teams get rid of will blow up somewhere else. See Trent Richardson, Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow Jr, Franklin Gutierrez, every ex-Browns quarterback, etc. With the exception of Brandon Phillips it really hasn't happened.

I'm not worried about Dion turning into a great player somewhere else. I don't think he's ever going to be a very efficient scorer. I see his ceiling as Corey Maggette or maybe a healthier Larry Hughes, tbh.

I hate this "Cleveland fans" argument and how many people perceive them. Plenty of people outside the Cleveland area see much promise and upside in Dion.

How quickly people forget when Dion started on the Olympic team roster last summer. He didn't play well in the game but he showed enough skill to be named a starter in the game. We're not the only ones that see his talent...

 

[Nathan S]

Anyone remember when we were bashing 'Dipo for not wanting to come into this mess? :chuckles:

I bet Waiters wishes he could switch places with him right now...

 

[Tornicade]

Dion has 19 assisted 3 pointers when Kyrie is off the court out of 890 possessions
CJ has 21 assisted 3 pointers when kyrie is off the court out of403 possessions
Dion has 22 assisted 3 pointers when Kyrie is on the court out of 1234 possessions
CJ has 26 assisted 3 pointers when kyrie is on the court out of 715 possessions

so in terms of three point assist. im not sure they were being looked at properly. assist per possession is a much better indicator of how the ball is moving to the perimeter.
Once again all numbers are bynum free.
3 point assisted rate profile

Irving off	assisted 3's	possessions	assisted per possession
DW	19	890	46.8
CJ	21	403	19.19
Irving on
DW	22	1234	56
CJ	26	715	27.5
CJ+DW no Irving
DW	4	234	58.5
CJ	12	234	19.5
CJ+DW+KI
KI	3	93	31
CJ	5	93	18.6
DW	6	93	15.5
CJ+KI no DW
KI	4	622	155.5
CJ	21	622	29.6
KI+DW No Miles, No Jack
KI	7	701	100
DW	11	701	63.72
KI+ LD + DW
KI	3	241	80.3
LD	4	241	60.25
DW	4	241	60.25

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What im seeing is that Irving and Waiters need a point forward. Loul deng might work out but they really arent getting the time together. I could also break down the two point assist bu I think we will see the same results. Ive already done a breakdown on how each guy distributes the ball but its clear cj gets more oppurtunities per possesion when Dion is on the court. and the ball gets distrubted much better when CJ+Dion+ Irving is on the court.

 

[Garland1]

I think the real argument for trading Dion has less to do with him being a hot head, and more because his talent and skills aren't as good as we hoped they'd be when we drafted him.

If he was scoring 20 points a night or affecting the game in other meaningful ways, he could be an overemotional diva all he wants for all I care. Kobe Bryant has similar personality traits...so does Demarcus Cousins, but nobody cares, because they're stars.

Dion's talent simply doesn't live up to his own ego, and the skills he does have don't do much to help the team. That's the reason for trading him.

He hasn't even been through two years of experience. You get better through experience and hard work just like every career.