Dion Waiters

[SteelSmack]

Your eyes tell you something every advanced stat does not. Got it. Now we can all move on.

So JR has been better defensively this season? I see why you're trying to get out of the debate. And like I said, the last month for Dion he's given effort and been a way better defender than JR Smith. Go on, dig up those advanced stats from the last month. Dion, right now, is a way better defender than JR Smith, prove he isn't without using advanced stats from years past.

 

[Cavatt]

Dion is easily the better defender, but it's OK.

Now we can make all the anti Dion arguments about Love

 

[Futuredome]

JR Smith is CJ Miles. The 3 point shot is his main shot. Everything else is rather bleh. For the Cavs with Kyrie Irving, that is nice. Nicer off the bench(though with Shump's injury history...........)

Dion had some legit complaints and even anti-Dion fans can agree with that. Kyrie was indeed overvalued. We are just seeing how much better we run through Lebron than Kyrie. It was a big reason why we lost so much with Kyrie the past 3 seasons. In the end, Dion may end up about=value to Kyrie. Irving the better scorer, Dion the better overall player. I can see why this got under Waiters crawl. In response, the Cavs organization ignored Dion quite a bit, because they didn't want to hurt Kyrie/Cavs brand. If they(Bryon) believed Kyrie would never become a strong "pg", imo, they never draft Waiters. That is why NBA has so many deals and setups. Sometimes the parts just don't fit.

 

[SteelSmack]

In the end, Dion may end up about=value to Kyrie. Irving the better scorer, Dion the better overall player.

I'm not sure I like your wording. Perhaps Dion is a more well rounded player than Irving, but I wouldn't say he's "better overall". Perhaps that's what you meant, though. Dion was a net positive player last year and Irving wasn't, I guess that means the eye test isn't allowed to say Irving is the better player, right?

 

[brownindian]

 

[Pioneer10]

KingDion™ at it again

The new Big 3. Waiters and the Servant with Goatbrook...UNstoppable!

Biggest different is he made his shots. Very similar looks to what he got in Cleveland and I thought he was capable of hitting these but his shot never fell at anywhere a consistent level.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Maybe it was terrible development, but it could also be that Dion decided to "show them" by embracing the reserve role in OKC that he was too proud to embrace here in Cleveland. In other words, it's a change on his end that wasn't going to happen here. If he can keep it up, good for him, though. He could have a really good career as a 6th man, or maybe even as a starting SG if paired with the right PG -- like maybe a (young) Eric Snow type.

To be fair, we have done a pretty piss-poor job of developing young players since forever, outside of "sure things" like LeBron and Kyrie, or course, both of whom were talented enough to develop in spite of us rather than because of us.

The Thunder, on the other hand, have done a pretty incredible job of developing their young players. Some of that was lottery luck (not being in the position to draft Oden, for example), but they seem to do pretty well with most of their young players, which is very much unlike us.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

To be fair, we have done a pretty piss-poor job of developing young players since forever, outside of "sure things" like LeBron and Kyrie, or course, both of whom were talented enough to develop in spite of us rather than because of us.

The Thunder, on the other hand, have done a pretty incredible job of developing their young players. Some of that was lottery luck (not being in the position to draft Oden, for example), but they seem to do pretty well with most of their young players, which is very much unlike us.

No argument there, but Dion hasn't been there long enough to be "developed".

 

[Jack Brickman]

No argument there, but Dion hasn't been there long enough to be "developed".

Yeah, but I was just going off of OKC's track record. I have a feeling they'll get the version of Dion we all wanted. It won't happen right away, but I expect Dion to be a much better player there. Our team has just had such shitty developmental coaching and a horrible culture for too long.

 

[SteelSmack]

No argument there, but Dion hasn't been there long enough to be "developed".

Using a guy the right way is a great start into developing a kid. Dion looks like he's used far better there than he ever was here (especially this year).

I'll really be interested to see what happens when Reggie Jackson is traded (that leak was completely intentional and sent a message to every GM in the league that he's available). If Dion is running the show once KD and Westbrook are sitting, he'll really be used the best way he can be. Right now he's splitting that with Jackson.

Dion looks good with the starters, too, so it wouldn't surprise me if they move Dion into the starting lineup if they can't move Jackson, though I don't think he can impact a game as well if he's the 3rd or 4th option on the floor.

 

[Dylan Windler's Mom]

Dion Waiters on Thunder: 'They give me the ball; Like, I actually touch the ball'

Dion Waiters has always been a bit of a polarizing prospect. He seems to have the talent to be an excellent player in the NBA, but his style of play can leave you wondering if he knows it's a team game and not an individual sport. At least, that's how it appeared for him while he was on the Cleveland Cavaliers over the last 2.5 seasons. It was a bit of a free for all without any structure his first two years and the chaos of this season with LeBron James' return didn't provide much more organization right away.

Since being traded to the Oklahoma City Thunder, we've seen a much better player out of Waiters. The Thunder have welcomed him in and trust him to have the ball in his hands -- something that didn't always seem to be the case in Cleveland. As Darnell Mayberry of the The Oklahoman tells us, Waiters has a pretty simple solution for why there's a difference between Cleveland and OKC: He gets to touch the ball.

Waiters doesn't hesitate to disclose the difference between his experience in Cleveland and Oklahoma City. After a 16-point performance Sunday at Orlando in which he made seven of nine shots, Waiters was asked what he's learned so far about where his shots will come from and how he fit into the offense.

He chuckled.

“Listen,” he said, “they give me the ball. Like, I touch the ball. Like, I actually, like, you know, touch the ball.”

It was the second time in less than a week that Waiters trumpeted the freedom the Thunder has given him.

“I'm able to feel the game out, knowing when to take the shot, when not to,” Waiters said. “Like I said, we got a great group of guys on this team who's very unselfish and they want you to be successful. So I think I came into a great situation.”

During his time with Cleveland this season, a dangerous drinking game with you and your friends would have been "drink every time a teammate has the ball and Waiters raises his hands for a pass no matter what the situation is." He's not the only player in the NBA to do such a thing, but it became almost comical how exaggerated and consistent his calls for the ball were. With the Thunder, he's still calling for the ball but he appears to be trusted with it much more than we saw with the Cavs.

Not having to wonder if he's going to get pulled from the game for a bad shot or a bad sequence is liberating his game as well. With the Cavs, Waiters was playing 23.8 minutes per game and averaging 10.5 points on 40.4 percent from the field and 25.6 percent from 3-point range. Since joining the Thunder, Waiters is averaging 14.4 points on 45.3 percent from the field and 37.5 percent from 3 in 27.6 minutes. It's just five games but the Thunder are letting him play "his game" a lot more already.

It's not just a matter of touching the ball more either. His usage rate was 24.0 percent in Cleveland this season and it's only ticked up to 24.1 percent in OKC. But his efficiency with the Thunder is far superior and he already looks to be a better player than we saw before. We'll see if this is just a flukey trend of improved play or if he's actually better with OKC, but as of right now the results are encouraging for Waiters and his new teammates.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...r-they-give-me-the-ball-like-i-touch-the-ball

 

[gratefuldead]

dion has done what he did here for them

he had a few fucking AWFUL games, absolute brick fests.

then he had a good game against orlando

dude is still being a clown, waiving his hands like a maniac for the ball

he thinks he's a lot better than he is

the fact he thought he was better than kyrie the whole time he was here, LOL

 

[Futuredome]

I'm not sure I like your wording. Perhaps Dion is a more well rounded player than Irving, but I wouldn't say he's "better overall". Perhaps that's what you meant, though. Dion was a net positive player last year and Irving wasn't, I guess that means the eye test isn't allowed to say Irving is the better player, right?

The Cavs kept Kyrie over Dion because they still(with fingers crossed behind their back) hope he can shake his natural urges and become a playmaker with the ball. His ceiling is higher, but he may never reach it while Dion's ceiling is more obtainable with a organization that gives a shit about him, which imo is equal value to Kyrie. No harm nor foul. If the Cavs had traded Kyrie, people would have had a fit if he blew up to a superstar pg with another team.

Dion clearly was ribbing Kyrie by the "I got to touch the ball meme".

 

[Cashius X]

dion has done what he did here for them

he had a few fucking AWFUL games, absolute brick fests.

then he had a good game against orlando

dude is still being a clown, waiving his hands like a maniac for the ball

he thinks he's a lot better than he is

the fact he thought he was better than kyrie the whole time he was here, LOL

He played one bad game in his debut followed by 4 good/great games. The fuck are you talking about?

Agreed, the hand waving is annoying but give him props. He's playing well offensively and he typically guards the best player on defense. He's doing a great job of that as well, as evidenced by his 2+ spg average since the trade went down and the fact that Brooks continues giving him tough assignments on defense.

Him thinking he's better than Kyrie isn't even a bad thing. They're both talented guards. You don't make it to that level (NBA) without having the utmost confidence in yourself. Everyone laughed at James Harden when he said he's the best player in the game but that's the confidence and ego you gotta have to make it.

 

[czvo]

Dion only thinks he's touching the ball more.

View: https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/557581580978638849

Perception is reality though...