French Terror Attack

[OptimusPrime]

The sentiment everywhere in the West toward Arabs/Muslims is obviously disturbing, but I highly doubt they attacked Paris over being mocked in a newspaper. France has been taking our weapons and killing Arabs for decades in the Middle East. That's why they get attacked and will continue to.

 

[gourimoko]

And the Ashkenazi (not the Israelis) have remained exclusively non-violent as a people.

Who?? Ashkenazis that are not Israelis. From what I've noticed, many Ashkenazis, even if they aren't Israeli, visit and support Israel.

So, I dunno if it's accurate to say reference an entire race of people and then exclude the vast majority of them in the predicate of your argument.

I rarely see Jews complaining about anti-Semitism

LOL!!!!!

and I never see them conducting violent guerrilLa attacks against those who mock them.

I could post 100 different independent news articles here that would demonstrate just how dangerous Jewish terrorists can be.

I don't know what's worse, the guy who kills for his God or the guy who kills for his G-d.

 

[gourimoko]

The sentiment everywhere in the West toward Arabs/Muslims is obviously disturbing, but I highly doubt they attacked Paris over being mocked in a newspaper. France has been taking our weapons and killing Arabs for decades in the Middle East. That's why they get attacked and will continue to.

How's this for starters, my father spent his earlier childhood in a cave while my relatives migrated into Algeria to fight for their independence.

That's how my grandfather died. A martyr, fighting for the Algerians, against the French.

And yeah, from the Algerians perspective, it was the French that were the "savages."

 

[JSS2306]

Let's just get to the truth and skip the political bullshit. Unfortunately a lot of moderate Muslims speak like this man. It's also unfortunate that I have to post a clip from Hannity.

 

[OptimusPrime]

How's this for starters, my father spent his earlier childhood in a cave while my relatives migrated into Algeria to fight for their independence.

That's how my grandfather died. A martyr, fighting for the Algerians, against the French.

And yeah, from the Algerians perspective, it was the French that were the "savages."

And they were right. And I bet a lot of the families of the Afghanis and Iraqis and Libyans and Syrians that we slaughtered feel the same way. But we don't understand why they hate us?

 

[gourimoko]

What makes it worse than anything a stand-up comic would say about another group of people in jest? This is essentially National Lampoon here. They do this to all races and cultures.

I mean, obviously it's a far more dangerous group of people to irk. But I just mean from a humor standpoint.

None. I'm not justifying the murder of a couple of cartoonists; racist or not.

Hope you don't think that's my intention?

 

[gourimoko]

Let's just get to the truth and skip the political bullshit. Unfortunately a lot of moderate Muslims speak like this man. It's also unfortunate that I have to post a clip from Hannity.

No one here is backing this guy up; he supports ISIS for fuck sake.

 

[The Oi]

Who?? Ashkenazis that are not Israelis. From what I've noticed, many Ashkenazis, even if they aren't Israeli, visit and support Israel.

So, I dunno if it's accurate to say reference an entire race of people and then exclude the vast majority of them in the predicate of your argument.



LOL!!!!!



I could post 100 different independent news articles here that would demonstrate just how dangerous Jewish terrorists can be.

I don't know what's worse, the guy who kills for his God or the guy who kills for his G-d.

Referring to Ashkenazi Jews currently not living in Israel. So largely Euro and American. Israel is a nightmare. I get your point on this if you're suggesting that by them agreeing with Israel's actions as a state they're complicit to those acts. Israel is a nightmare, no denial here.

What I'm referring to is a lack of terroristic acts by Jews here in the US and Europe. I'm not familiar with much Jewish terrorism here in the US or Europe?

What are you lol'ing at? I don't see a whole hell of a lot of fighting against anti-Semitism from Jews here in the US or any kind of aggressive action against it. I see a group of people that have largely experienced success here and from pretty much all experience I've had with many Jews, have a pretty good attitude about Anti-Jewish sentiments and jokes.

 

[JSS2306]

No one here is backing this guy up; he supports ISIS for fuck sake.

Yet you're using this act of terrorism to make a political point about the magazine cartoon depictions and your family ties to Algeria? What about the innocent people that died?

I'm confused.

 

[The Oi]

None. I'm not justifying the murder of a couple of cartoonists; racist or not.

Hope you don't think that's my intention?

Nope. I'm sure it's not.

Just curious as to your take because you'd described the anti-Islam cartoons as bigotry.

What are your standards for bigotry?

If David Cross jokingly says, "You know what I hate...niggers," to shock a crowd and later expressed distaste for racism, does that make him a bigot? Or if Dave Chapelle rips white people for being uptight, racist and shitty at dancing?

Basically...if something is stated or drawn in a comedic sense, what separates bigotry from pure parody?

I assume intent?

I ask because I'm trying to figure out what's wrong with a satirical magazine making fun of Islam, if it was in good fun.

Someone post the cartoons, please. Were they genuinely bad? And were they in the mix with other groups being made fun of? And did the group making fun of all other groups also make fun of themselves?

 

[Chris]

God, I had to turn that guy off. Religious fanatics scare the shit out of me. Shit, religion scares me. The things people believe and the acts they commit in the name of it are frightening.

 

[Pick6]

Read the posts in here... You can imagine from the nonsense that's on this page what I or other Arabs and Muslims would think... I'm probably right in the middle or maybe even to the left of most Arabs or Muslims.

And since I know I'm the only vocal Arab on the forums, so I'll answer any specific question you have, simply because I respect the process of intellectual dialogue.

I'm reading and seeing same anti-Muslim opinions on another board. I'll preface by saying I am not anti-Islam/Muslim at all. I have very good friends who practice. However, this study was pointed out to me by a guy suggesting these aren't "extremist", but rather quite common actions/beliefs for those who practice. It was quite surprising to me to be honest. Curious to your opinion on the study.

http://pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60

 

[OptimusPrime]

What about the innocent people that died?

Which innocent people are you concerned about? The French ones? Or all of them? Because if the Western countries weren't killing innocent people, they probably wouldn't be either.

It doesn't justify any of it. The terrorists should be brought to justice, just as the French murderers should be. But that isn't how it works, and until someone stops it will just continue.

ISIS is well armed with American weapons, and wouldn't exist without our involvement in Libya and Syria, where we had no business being in the first place. People that are calling for more blood will get it, on both sides.

 

[gourimoko]

What are you lol'ing at? I don't see a whole hell of a lot of fighting against anti-Semitism from Jews here in the US or any kind of aggressive action against it. I see a group of people that have largely experienced success here and from pretty much all experience I've had with many Jews, have a pretty good attitude about Anti-Jewish sentiments and jokes.

Jigo... this is wrong. It's counter factual. You realize that in Europe, anti-semitism and Holocaust denial can land you in prison?

The ADL is the most active anti-discrimination organization there is and I ought to know. They have their shit together, big time, and they are extremely active.

The American Israeli Political Action Committee is the most powerful lobby in the United States. They are the very definition of "aggression" in politics, and that's according to George H.W. Bush who thought of them as the most influential organization in Washington.

 

[kosis]

Nope. I'm sure it's not.

Just curious as to your take because you'd described the anti-Islam cartoons as bigotry.

What are your standards for bigotry?

If David Cross jokingly says, "You know what I hate...niggers," to shock a crowd and later expressed distaste for racism, does that make him a bigot? Or if Dave Chapelle rips white people for being uptight, racist and shitty at dancing?

Basically...if something is stated or drawn in a comedic sense, what separates bigotry from pure parody?

I assume intent?

I ask because I'm trying to figure out what's wrong with a satirical magazine making fun of Islam, if it was in good fun.

Someone post the cartoons, please. Were they genuinely bad? And were they in the mix with other groups being made fun of? And did the group making fun of all other groups also make fun of themselves?

Years ago, Charlie fired their cartoonist Siné for drawing an anti-semetic cartoon. He started his own magazine to rebel against their hypocrisy.

Insulting Islam is in vogue right now, so we're talking about freedom of speech, "Je suis Charlie", etc. This magazine is being seen as a heroic publication instead of hateful because of its targets.

And anytime this happens, all Muslims get lumped back in. Nevermind the fact that they killed a Muslim police officer that died protecting the cartoonists' rights to ridicule his faith.