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GAME 24 | Cavs vs Hawks | Dec. 13, 2008 | 7:30 PM

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WE'RE NEVER GOING TO WIN THE TITLE. LEBRON SUCKS. ITS NOT LIKE Z AND GIBSON HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE TEAM, ITS AN ILLUSION. DELONTE CANT SHOOT. EVER. FERRY NEEDS TO BLOW UP THE TEAM. AND THE NBA IS FIXED COMPLETELY. JESUS WE'RE 20-4 WHY THE HELL ARE WE LOSING OVER 20% OF OUR GAMES.... ELITE TEAMS DON'T DO THAT! I PREDICT A 58 GAME LOSING STREAK.
 
Yes West and Wally were huge for them tonight (as in the Hawks) why in the hell did West take 19 shots in the first place? And people say bringing in another big name player would kill the offense please.

LOL... Yea, very true... As much as I don't want to pick up a 31 year old shooting guard. I'd trade Wally, Sasha and a pick for VC right now without thinking twice. I think it's obvious Mo and LeBron are comfortable in playoff style games. Put Carter next to them and we'd be unstoppable.*

*almost.
 
wow now i know how teams feel when they play us and we get to the line so much.....you really wanna hate that team.


Yes and at this rate all the teams pay the refs and hate them at the same time.

WE'RE NEVER GOING TO WIN THE TITLE. LEBRON SUCKS. ITS NOT LIKE Z AND GIBSON HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE TEAM, ITS AN ILLUSION. DELONTE CANT SHOOT. EVER. FERRY NEEDS TO BLOW UP THE TEAM. AND THE NBA IS FIXED COMPLETELY. JESUS WE'RE 20-4 WHY THE HELL ARE WE LOSING OVER 20% OF OUR GAMES.... ELITE TEAMS DON'T DO THAT! I PREDICT A 58 GAME LOSING STREAK.

It's good that we understand each other. LeChoke is garbage. ;)
 
For all the free-throw discrepancy battling going on out there, I can understand where both sides get off. I hate when people blame the refs, because it seems like an easy cop-out. In order to eliminate the bias, watch a game between two times you neither like nor hate. As you're watching the game, go to each team's message boards and I guarantee you'll see at least 5 members from each board criticizing the refs. Regardless of the momentum of the game, each fan feels like his/her team is being cheated by the refs. It really gets old after a while.

However, I think it would be silly to completely discredit the impact of the referees. As I mentioned in my stats thread, the ft attempts by the Hawks (39) is the most by a Cavalier opponent this season, and the discrepancy (16) is the highest in favor of a Cavalier opponent this season. To disregard those numbers is ignorant. Also, insight can be gained from watching the game. I cannot recall ever seeing an occasion where the refs put a team in the bonus (5 team fouls) within the first 3 minutes and 2 seconds of the 4th quarter (Atlanta was in bonus with 8:58 to go in the 4th). Additionally, although the Cavs scored field goals on their first two possessions of the fourth (which would appear to be a momentum builder), the Hawks drew 3 fouls in their first two possessions. At that point it really becomes an uphill battle.

Either way, it's definitely time to look forward to the next game and not worry about it. The refs can be blamed for altering the game's momentum, but for God's sake lets not blame them for every single call.
 
For all the free-throw discrepancy battling going on out there, I can understand where both sides get off. I hate when people blame the refs, because it seems like an easy cop-out. In order to eliminate the bias, watch a game between two times you neither like nor hate. As you're watching the game, go to each team's message boards and I guarantee you'll see at least 5 members from each board criticizing the refs. Regardless of the momentum of the game, each fan feels like his/her team is being cheated by the refs. It really gets old after a while.

However, I think it would be silly to completely discredit the impact of the referees. As I mentioned in my stats thread, the ft attempts by the Hawks (39) is the most by a Cavalier opponent this season, and the discrepancy (16) is the highest in favor of a Cavalier opponent this season. To disregard those numbers is ignorant. Also, insight can be gained from watching the game. I cannot recall ever seeing an occasion where the refs put a team in the bonus (5 team fouls) within the first 3 minutes and 2 seconds of the 4th quarter (Atlanta was in bonus with 8:58 to go in the 4th). Additionally, although the Cavs scored field goals on their first two possessions of the fourth (which would appear to be a momentum builder), the Hawks drew 3 fouls in their first two possessions. At that point it really becomes an uphill battle.

Either way, it's definitely time to look forward to the next game and not worry about it. The refs can be blamed for altering the game's momentum, but for God's sake lets not blame them for every single call.

But but but but.... It's the league! They're always out there trying to get the Cavs! Can't you see?
 
Man some people just enjoy bitching at every loss. Almost 40 pages for a loss

When we when it is around 20
 
The game was 92-94 Hawks leading when Joe Johnson missed the jumper.

Lebron drew ALOT OF ATTENTION and Delonte's three pointer got blocked with the shot clock at 1. Mo got the inbound pass and with 1 second to go he threw it up there but missed (no big deal, its only a second left).

THe last play Mo missed a shot which was contested a bit but Lebron got the rebound and Delonte had alot of space but just couldn't knock it down.

Lebron had 14 points in the 4th quarter. Mo did not shoot good from the 3 point line but atleast he created things for himself and others. In the 4th quarter he had a couple of plays. He scored several points and got Lebron an open three, which he made.

Several reasons we lost this game:

The hawks shot 16 MORE FT's than us. We were in the penalty with 6 minutes to go in the second quarter, 4 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter and 10 minutes to go in the fourth quarter. You can't blame the loss solely on the refs but they had ALOT TO DO WITH IT.

Sasha picking up two fouls in the fourth was bullsh*t. He barely touched Joe Johnson and they gave him the call. How about Lebron getting bumped by two and three of the hawks defenders on pic and roll situations or when he drove inside the whole freakin night? It's bullsh*t.

We supposedly have shooters on this team, Delonte and Wally couldn't play for the D-League with the way they played tonight. Wally can't make a shot for his freakin life. If Danny is worried about trading him then he is truly an idiot.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need a bigger 2 guard who can lock people down and shoot the three. Players like Battier, Raja Bell, John Salmons (he can't really shoot the 3 though but his defense would more than make up for it). Delonte has to come off the bench. I like Delonte alot but he is more of a bench player than a starter. He is a good player and him coming off the bench for us would be huge.
 
When Josh Smith blocked Delonte's 3,that should've been a foul,cause he smacked him in the face going by.
 
For all the free-throw discrepancy battling going on out there, I can understand where both sides get off. I hate when people blame the refs, because it seems like an easy cop-out. In order to eliminate the bias, watch a game between two times you neither like nor hate. As you're watching the game, go to each team's message boards and I guarantee you'll see at least 5 members from each board criticizing the refs. Regardless of the momentum of the game, each fan feels like his/her team is being cheated by the refs. It really gets old after a while.

However, I think it would be silly to completely discredit the impact of the referees. As I mentioned in my stats thread, the ft attempts by the Hawks (39) is the most by a Cavalier opponent this season, and the discrepancy (16) is the highest in favor of a Cavalier opponent this season. To disregard those numbers is ignorant. Also, insight can be gained from watching the game. I cannot recall ever seeing an occasion where the refs put a team in the bonus (5 team fouls) within the first 3 minutes and 2 seconds of the 4th quarter (Atlanta was in bonus with 8:58 to go in the 4th). Additionally, although the Cavs scored field goals on their first two possessions of the fourth (which would appear to be a momentum builder), the Hawks drew 3 fouls in their first two possessions. At that point it really becomes an uphill battle.

Either way, it's definitely time to look forward to the next game and not worry about it. The refs can be blamed for altering the game's momentum, but for God's sake lets not blame them for every single call.

With all that said, you're right, all we can do at this point is work towards the next game. I just feel it's important to voice some level of objection to losing a 1 possession game with the aforementioned statistics.
 
Yeah but the way the refs were calling things I was surprised they didn't call an offensive foul on Delonte. LOL
 
The refs weren't good. Never argued against that. We had some rough calls. So did they (the "airball" hit the rim. Shouldn't of been a shot clock vio), although not as many. My point is the refs made some bad calls but we overcome that and had the lead. I didn't believe down the stretch there were any bad calls. We just couldn't hit our shots.
 
Hawks game: The good and the bad

First, the good: We were without Z and Boobie, two of our better offensive options, and we were very close to winning a game on the road, against a good team, on the end of a 4-in-5 stretch, and after playing poorly for 2/3rds of the game. That alone speaks volumes about just how good this team is potentially. We played 1/3 of the game well and were still in position to win the game, and again were on the road against a good team without two key players.

The really good: The fact that this team showed so much resiliency, so much will to win, so much heart during the last 1/3rd of the game. Most teams would have folded being down 12 on the road midway through the third, but we didn't. We could have pitched in the towel, but we kept fighting. This team had won 11 straight games, and we are obviously going to make the playoffs and most likely be one of the top seeds, this game, one measly loss, wouldn't have mattered in the long run; but it did for this team, this team didn't want to lose this game. We showed a ton of heart and determination tonight. Yes, we ended up losing, but if we showed this much will to win in a game that really doesn't matter at the end of the year, think how much heart we are going to play with in the playoffs.

The bad: Our two weaknesses got exposed tonight. Lack of offensive scoring depth at the 4/5 and lack of size at the SG position. The Hawks packed the defense in around the lane and made us shoot too many contested jump shots for most of the game. Not having Z to spread the floor is a huge loss. We need another Joe Smith to come off the bench and do essentially the same thing that Z does. If Z is healthy and never in foul trouble, then obviously we can probably do without another big who can shoot, but that's not always going to be the case.

Second, we need a SG who can defend premier SGs in the league. Delonte is simply too small if the other SG has a post game. Why MB had Delonte on JJ and was sending double teams every play instead of letting Sasha play him straight up is beyond me. If Sasha is in there, JJ may get a couple more buckets because he'd be in single coverage, but Bibby wouldn't have gotten 24 points if Mo wasn't always coming over to double. And then, why was Delonte in when LeBron was guarding JJ? Marvin Williams simply posted him up. I don't want to put too much blame on Delonte, and it is moreso on MB not taking him out when he's obviously a liability on D and can't make a shot on the other end. I don't have the confidence in Delonte to stop Johnson or Ray Allen on a consistent basis without needing too much help from other players, and I certainly don't think he can defend Kobe for 7 games in the Finals, if that is what it comes down to.

If MB doesn't have the confidence in Sasha to play big minutes against teams with the better SGs, we need to go out and get a SG who MB has enough confidence in to guard premier SGs. And then, we need to go out and get a big who can shoot from 15-17 consistently. Neither of these players need to be all-star caliber, just good role players who can step up and play big roles. We don't need a TMAC or VC, though it would be nice. I'd rather get a Battier and a Scola than just a TMAC or VC, because we already will have plenty of scoring options if we were to get 2 solid role players that is the case. Someone with enough size to guard premier SGs, and a big who can shoot pretty well from 15-17. I don't think that getting two players of the caliber of Battier and Scola should be too difficult with our expirings.

Just my $0.02
 
Re: Hawks game: The good and the bad

Isn't there a game thread? Why post this here.
 
The refs weren't good. Never argued against that. We had some rough calls. So did they (the "airball" hit the rim. Shouldn't of been a shot clock vio), although not as many. My point is the refs made some bad calls but we overcome that and had the lead. I didn't believe down the stretch there were any bad calls. We just couldn't hit our shots.

I agree, this team of refs was absolute shit. I remember towards the end when Andy had a nice drive, where they called a foul on Josh Smith for an and-1. On replay, Andy leaned into Smith, who simply backed away from the play, yet was whistled for a foul. This team just sucked up and down, but I think it favored Atlanta more this game. Either way, time to move on and I hope we never see that referee team again :chuckles:
 
You know what pissed me off more than the refs sucking?

The Cavs whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning and whining and moaning ALL GAME LONG. Focus on the game!! I can't stand when we are crying over a call and while the other team is running up court playing 5 on 4.
 

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