Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[AZ_]

Nobody? I've been in favor of starting Johnny from the moment we drafted him, he's easily the higher variance option between our two quarterbacks. We know what Brian Hoyer is, and that's an average QB at best. I'm much more interested in seeing what Johnny can and can't do at this level, and I've already been willing to bet once he gets on the field he's going to surprise a lot of the naysayers on here with his play.

As "interesting" as that would be, it's plainly obvious that the kid is nowhere near ready to step on an NFL football field in a starting capacity.

That may change, but whether or not you know what Hoyer is becomes irrelevant, he's the only guy on your roster capable of starting at this point.

As sad as that is.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Higher variance means that he could be real good or real bad. I think if he plays now he'll be a whole lot more bad than good. He may flash a few plays during a game but he will largely struggle vs live defenses at the start.

Hoyer, although not an ideal option, gives us the best chance at winning now. He can run the offense and has shown last year, albeit a small sample, he can be a winning quarterback. Do I think Hoyer is our long term QB answer, absolutely not. However; for right now given what we have on the roster he's our best bet. We'll see if that remains the same throughout the year.

I know exactly what higher variance means Phills, and I ended my post saying I don't think he'll be as bad as you (and others) think he will. I'm willing to roll the dice on Johnny's upside, and let him make his rookie mistakes this year. He should provide enough explosive plays in between to make it worth it.

On the flip side, I don't think Hoyer is our best bet. I think I was being nice saying average QB, I don't get the infatuation he gets from some fans. He looked beyond awful at his other stops, I'm willing to bet we're not seeing an improbable mid-career revival.

 

[AZ_]

I know exactly what higher variance means Phills, and I ended my post saying I don't think he'll be as bad as you (and others) think he will. I'm willing to roll the dice on Johnny's upside, and let him make his rookie mistakes this year. He should provide enough explosive plays in between to make it worth it.

On the flip side, I don't think Hoyer is our best bet. I think I was being nice saying average QB, I don't get the infatuation he gets from some fans. He looked beyond awful at his other stops, I'm willing to bet we're not seeing an improbable mid-career revival.

What infatuation?

Is anyone arguing that he's anything other than a marginal stopgap? Because I'm not sure I've seen that. Manziel had every opportunity to take the job from him, but has looked markedly worse and hasn't even remotely looked capable of the "explosive" plays.

I don't see any upside whatsoever in starting a kid before he's ready. This isn't like other rookie QBs before him, none of them had this little experience and mechanical issues as Manziel.

The best thing that can happen for Manziel right now if for Hoyer to be good this year, and maybe next year too.

 

[CosmoKramer]

What infatuation?

Is anyone arguing that he's anything other than a marginal stopgap? Because I'm not sure I've seen that. Manziel had every opportunity to take the job from him, but has looked markedly worse and hasn't even remotely looked capable of the "explosive" plays.

I don't see any upside whatsoever in starting a kid before he's ready. This isn't like other rookie QBs before him, none of them had this little experience and mechanical issues as Manziel.

The best thing that can happen for Manziel right now if for Hoyer to be good this year, and maybe next year too.

Infatuation was too strong a word, most agree Hoyer isn't the long term answer.

Disagree he's looked markedly worse though, they've both looked bad with Johnny's bright spots looking better than Hoyer's. Mechanical issues can be fixed with repetition and coaching, I'm not denying his footwork is sloppy and inconsistent. I just believe his mobility opens up the running game in ways that Hoyer cannot, and the miniscule chance we have at surprising anyone this year will come down to the effectiveness of our run game and defense.

Simply put, I'd rather risk going 4-12 with a shot at 9-7 with Johnny rather than sticking Hoyer out there for good and going 6-10. There's not a chance in hell Brian Hoyer plays well enough with our receiving core to be back next year, I think it's improbable he even starts half the games this year.

 

[AZ_]

What bright spots were there in Manziel's pre-season games that made him look like he's going to be an explosive player this season?

I think it was pretty obvious he was behind Hoyer by a pretty good margin, and it had more to do with just footwork. I'm just so baffled as to why people think this kid who could barely complete rhythm passes with any regularity is going to take this team from 6-10 to 9-7.

That's almost comical based on the results thus far.

 

[Bob_The_Cat]

Flat out...Hoyer will get 4-5 games to prove himself. If he looks like garbage, the pressure from the front office, media, and fans is going to be so unsurmountable that they will be forced to put Manziel in. I think he'll be ready by then, but he's definitely not ready now. He needs at least a fe more weeks of practice before I'd be willing to put him on the field full time.

However, I think Johnny is a good enough player that once he gets on the field his competitive instincts will take over and he'll be fine. Will he set the world on fire? Most likely not.

However, Johnny has something that simply can't be taught. What is that you might ask? Brass balls. As a former football player, if Brian Hoyer walked into my huddle, I can't say I would have a hell of a lot of confidence in him leading us to victory.

That being said, with Manziel you at least know in your head that if the game is close, he has a the ability to make a game changing play for the team. That makes a huge difference when talking about the psyche of an offense. If you don't believe your QB can make a crucial play late in the game, then you have a major problem.

 

[SixPACK]

However, I think Johnny is a good enough player that once he gets on the field his competitive instincts will take over and he'll be fine. Will he set the world on fire? Most likely not.

However, Johnny has something that simply can't be taught. What is that you might ask? Brass balls. As a former football player, if Brian Hoyer walked into my huddle, I can't say I would have a hell of a lot of confidence in him leading us to victory.

I can't wait for the first bomb TD pass and Johnny just runs down the field with his $ symbol lifted in the air. I hope it starts a trend with the fans. It will be on some Hunger Games shit.

 

[Phills14]

Flat out...Hoyer will get 4-5 games to prove himself. If he looks like garbage, the pressure from the front office, media, and fans is going to be so unsurmountable that they will be forced to put Manziel in. I think he'll be ready by then, but he's definitely not ready now. He needs at least a fe more weeks of practice before I'd be willing to put him on the field full time.

However, I think Johnny is a good enough player that once he gets on the field his competitive instincts will take over and he'll be fine. Will he set the world on fire? Most likely not.

However, Johnny has something that simply can't be taught. What is that you might ask? Brass balls. As a former football player, if Brian Hoyer walked into my huddle, I can't say I would have a hell of a lot of confidence in him leading us to victory.

That being said, with Manziel you at least know in your head that if the game is close, he has a the ability to make a game changing play for the team. That makes a huge difference when talking about the psyche of an offense. If you don't believe your QB can make a crucial play late in the game, then you have a major problem.

You are assuming the game changing plays are positive. Manziel is no where near ready and if he's put out there too early he's going to make a lot more negative game changing plays than positive.

Let's not fool ourselves with Manziel, he's a project. Take all the Johnny Football persona crap out of the equation and look at him objectively. He redshirted his freshman year and played 2 years at Texas A&M. If you look at the history of QBs in the NFL you'll see guys with that level of experience have a very poor track record of success. He also played in a no huddle, limited play book, 1 read, shotgun spread offense. He's being asked for the first time in his life play out of a huddle with a 10-15 word play call, take snaps from under center and make 2-4 reads with check downs. It's radically different than anything he's experienced and needless to say, there is a significant learning curve. Does all that mean he won't be successful? Of course not but patience is needed with him. He's a project and if the Browns want him to be the QB of the future they have to bring him along step by step. Once he is at least competent in the play book the play calls, the routes and the protections then he can be given a short leash but until that time the Browns would be foolish to throw him out there and expect him to learn on the fly.

Also, no one that I can recall is casting Hoyer as the next Tom Brady. Most are saying he's the most prepared and gives the Browns the best shot at winning in the short term but long term he's not the answer.

 

[upper lip]

I hope it starts a trend with the fans.

HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING UNDER A ROCK THE LAST FEW MONTHS!?

 

[SixPACK]

HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING UNDER A ROCK THE LAST FEW MONTHS!?

I meant like the whole damn stadium doing it after he does it. Of course I know people have been doing it

 

[CosmoKramer]

What bright spots were there in Manziel's pre-season games that made him look like he's going to be an explosive player this season?

I think it was pretty obvious he was behind Hoyer by a pretty good margin, and it had more to do with just footwork. I'm just so baffled as to why people think this kid who could barely complete rhythm passes with any regularity is going to take this team from 6-10 to 9-7.

That's almost comical based on the results thus far.

I said a shot at 9-7, I don't see a similar ceiling with Hoyer at the helm. Sure we could potentially be much worse, but I'm willing to risk that.

And the flashes from Johnny were there; from the impromptu roll out and strike for a first down to Burleson against the Rams, or when he turned the corner against the Bears for 15 (and smartly slid). He also looked calm and composed when starting a drive in his own end zone against the Redskins, taking the Browns 60 yards before the drive stalled.

I'm struggling to remember Hoyer's bright spots, I thought he was just as inaccurate as Johnny. His deep ball looked better, but we took few shots down the field with either QB.

 

[I-77 NORTH]

I actually thought Manziel played better than Hoyer did up to this point.

 

[AZ_]

I want to see what you guys do, I truly do.

But those are basic plays in the NFL, I just don't see anything from Manziel what would suggest a ceiling of 9 wins for this team.

 

[CosmoKramer]

I want to see what you guys do, I truly do.

But those are basic plays in the NFL, I just don't see anything from Manziel what would suggest a ceiling of 9 wins for this team.

9 wins is best case scenario, and it's only that high because our division doesn't look as strong as years past. Cincy, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh are all beatable, and we also play the only division worse than ours in the AFC South.

If Ben Tate breaks out and the defense under Pettine morphs into a top-5 unit we could claw out those 9 wins. The Jets were 8-8 with no receivers and Geno Smith giving them subpar quarterback play last year, it's not impossible.

 

[Jack Brickman]

9 wins is best case scenario, and it's only that high because our division doesn't look as strong as years past. Cincy, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh are all beatable, and we also play the only division worse than ours in the AFC South.

If Ben Tate breaks out and the defense under Pettine morphs into a top-5 unit we could claw out those 9 wins. The Jets were 8-8 with no receivers and Geno Smith giving them subpar quarterback play last year, it's not impossible.

Nine wins is more like the ridiculous case scenario.

We're winning five games or less, guys. Just accept it.