Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[Soda]

How do we know he's not ready? Just because the coaching staff says so? Again, if it was that easy. Then why wasn't Tom Brady starting for the pats when Bledsoe got hurt? He was clearly the better option.

Cherry picking Tom Brady's ascension over Drew Bledsoe? That's a solid way to show precedent in the NFL... I mean, you've got to be stupid to really believe that the coaching staff doesn't know what's best for the team more often than not...

 

[Jack Brickman]

How soon we forget...

What if Johnny is the next Blaine Gabbert? We just don't know yet.

Hoyer has basically been Blaine Gabbert the past four weeks.

 

[Soda]

Hoyer has basically been Blaine Gabbert the past four weeks.

Yeah, maybe.

Blaine Gabbert has also won 4 times in the 28 games he's started. Hoyer has 7 wins under his belt just this season; whether or not he was good during the whole game each time.

Gabbert was drafted in the first round. Blaine Gabbert is what we don't want Johnny to look like. He was rushed into the starting role and looked lost and got his ass kicked. I'm not just throwing Johnny in there if he's not prepared. He should be prepared, though.

 

[AZ_]

Yeah, maybe.

Blaine Gabbert has also won 4 times in the 28 games he's started. Hoyer has 7 wins under his belt just this season; whether or not he was good during the whole game each time.

Gabbert was drafted in the first round. Blaine Gabbert is what we don't want Johnny to look like. He was rushed into the starting role and looked lost and got his ass kicked. I'm not just throwing Johnny in there if he's not prepared. He should be prepared, though.

The wins thing again?...Jesus.

 

[spydy13]

The opinion of the team couldn't have been lower going into this season. I get irritated that Cleveland Browns fans have fine wine tastes because I've put in the work in turning around cultures of schools professionally... its hard as a motherfucker and rarely appreciated. So, I like mentioning Hoyer's role in breaking this team out of the Oakland/Jacksonville category and into the category of a team that competes weekly. After hours of debate, we know where each other stand.

Hey, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. I can see how you could ally your self with Hoyer if you view what he did as similar to what you do professionally.

And listen, I don't discredit all the hard work Hoyer put in here to get healthy and to lead the team. He maximized his talents to help this team win some games, and the fact that he was a local kid made it that much sweeter.

 

[Soda]

The wins thing again?...Jesus.

It's not to support starting Hoyer at all. In fact, I think it's time to make the change.. The perfect time, actually.

I'm just saying that saying Hoyer is Gabbert is pretty unfair to Hoyer.

My point, though, was Johnny might not be ready. If he's not, you don't want to see him out there flailing like Blaine Gabbert did in Jax, even though the Browns' line is better.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

-Do you really expect Pettine to admit it publicly if Manziel is having trouble picking up the playbook, knowing the plays, and reading defenses in practice? I guess for a normal rookie, he could've said something generic, but this is Manziel, you know if he would've said anything negative, the media would've had a field day with it, just like they did in training camp, when he was seen out & about instead of trying to learn the playbook.

He didn't just say "he's ready". He 1) mentioned that they'd been discussing a switch since for more than a month, 2) said that Manziel had "been ready" that entire time, and 3) said that Manziel's play made the decision "really tough". And in the "actions speak louder than words" category, he actually put Manziel in during the 4th quarter of a very important game at a point where the game was not yet lost. That's more than just the obligatory "don't say something bad/discouraging".

-Once you go to Manziel, there's no going back to Hoyer. There's just simply not. That just opens up a can of worms that shouldn't be opened.

I agree (with one exception) but then he shouldn't have put him in the Buffalo game at all. That reignited the whole debate within the team, in the media, and within the fandom, dragging in guys like Thomas and making Pettine look badly this weekend. I only mentioned the possibility of replacing him in the context of your worst-case scenario -- that Manziel would be so bad that he'd present a major risk of injury to himself. In that context, you could replace him. But I think that's incredibly unrealistic.

-Why go to your rookie 1st rd guy when he isn't ready? He's not some 3rd rounder that you hope will cut it. They clearly think the guy is talented enough to be a franchise guy, why mess with him if he doesn't have the offense down pat? Do you really want the rest of the offense correcting him on plays in the huddle/on the field? You take a lot of risks putting him out there if he's not ready.

I could agree with all of that but for Pettine putting him in against Buffalo, and all the comments he made subsequently. Now if the reality is that Manziel wasn't ready to be put in against Buffalo, and those comments were all bogus, then you might not start him. But having said all those things, and with Manziel having played fairly well in Buffalo, Pettine has to deal with the reality he created.

-Defensive coach or not, if he would've thought Manziel was ready & would've provided a better chance to win, he would've went with him.

Yes, but that's circular. He thought Hoyer gave the Browns a better chance to win because, as Pettine himself stated, he expected Hoyer to play better against the Colts. His mistake wasn't in his evaluation of Manziel as much as it was in his evaluation of Hoyer.

 

[UDcleveland]

I'm normally in pretty good agreement with you MoFlo (and Keys for that matter), but couldn't disagree more on this one.

-Do you really expect Pettine to admit it publicly if Manziel is having trouble picking up the playbook, knowing the plays, and reading defenses in practice? I guess for a normal rookie, he could've said something generic, but this is Manziel, you know if he would've said anything negative, the media would've had a field day with it, just like they did in training camp, when he was seen out & about instead of trying to learn the playbook.

So, you feel like Manziel isn't ready because of what the coaching staff says... because 'that's how this works.' Except... when the coaching staff says he is ready, they are lying?

-Once you go to Manziel, there's no going back to Hoyer. There's just simply not. That just opens up a can of worms that shouldn't be opened.

Why shouldn't it be opened? One could argue Hoyer opened a can of worms by consistently sucking for an extended period of time.

-Why go to your rookie 1st rd guy when he isn't ready? He's not some 3rd rounder that you hope will cut it. They clearly think the guy is talented enough to be a franchise guy, why mess with him if he doesn't have the offense down pat? Do you really want the rest of the offense correcting him on plays in the huddle/on the field? You take a lot of risks putting him out there if he's not ready.

Again on whether or not he's ready... but that aside, even we make a baseless assumption that he doesn't know the offense after 14 weeks, the answer is, you let Kyle Shannahan give him a simplified version of the playbook and let him get a taste of the NFL. I'm not seeing the substantial risk either way.

-No, "he can't be worse than Hoyer" isn't a good reason to put him out there, as some have said.

Why not? Sometimes your hand is forced when a guy plays this bad.

-Defensive coach or not, if he would've thought Manziel was ready & would've provided a better chance to win, he would've went with him. Even as a defensive coach, you know they can't be on the field the whole game, so if he would've thought Manziel would've given at least a lil leeway to the D, he would've made the switch.

Mostly agreed. But as others have said, coaches can be wrong. And rookie ones often are. Also, Pettine thinking Hoyer gives us a better chance to win, and Pettine thinking Manziel is not ready are two entirely different things.

 

[getBUCKED]

How do we go into this upcoming draft not knowing what we have in Manziel, and knowing we probably won't be resigning Hoyer?

 

[AZ_]

How do we go into this upcoming draft not knowing what we have in Manziel, and knowing we probably won't be resigning Hoyer?

Knowing what you have in three games?

Stop.

 

[I-77 NORTH]

How do we go into this upcoming draft not knowing what we have in Manziel, and knowing we probably won't be resigning Hoyer?

I brought that point up earlier and I got shot down by saying, we need to evaluate what type of QB Manziel is; to only be answered back: "why the hell would the browns do a qb evaluation this late in the season".

So yeah.

It's time to see whether or not we need to draft QB in this years draft or not.

 

[Soda]

I brought that point up earlier and I got shot down by saying, we need to evaluate what type of QB Manziel is; to only be answered back: "why the hell would the browns do a qb evaluation this late in the season".

So yeah.

It's time to see whether or not we need to draft QB in this years draft or not.

Now you both will get shot-down... You don't find out what you have in a guy after 3 games to end the season... You won't know until sometime next season, which is why the statement is not lauded...

They're not deciding whether or not to draft a QB based on what they see in the three next games.. If they wanted to draft a QB, they'd know that already. Nothing in the next three games is going to substantially change the Browns' front office's feelings about drafting a QB in the upcoming draft.

 

[Chris]

If Manziel is so "not ready" that he can't even function in an NFL offense or play better than Hoyer has, just get rid of him. Seriously. Get rid of him. But I refuse to believe that right now. Shocked that some people still want Hoyer starting. I thought Jerod Cherry was literally the only person.

 

[Soda]

Shocked that some people still want Hoyer starting.

Who? Outside Je'rod, of course.

 

[getBUCKED]

Knowing what you have in three games?

Stop.

As opposed to 0 games? I sure know you aren't convinced Manziel is the future and neither am I. I was a strong advocate for Teddy, and I still think he's going to be a good QB.

We need to see how Manziel reacts to live situations. I agree that 3 games isnt a big sample, especially at the end of the season. But I do think it's a good time to throw him in the water to see if he sinks or swims.