Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[The Human Q-Tip]

Not nearly as dumb as it would be to take the rare Tom Brady rise as the example for why you think the coaches don't know what's going on...

Obviously, the coaches have more knowledge than we do, and generally should be counted on to make better decisions than we would. On the other hand, that doesn't mean they're immune from being wrong. And while some may argue it is unfair to judge them based on hindsight, "hindsight" can also be another word for judging them based on results. I'm not an electrician, but if I hire a guy to rewire my junction box and every fuse in the house blows when he's done, I can know he screwed up.

And even coaches who have access to the same information within a team still may disagree on an ultimate decision.

Mike Pettine was on record saying he thought Hoyer had to play better against the Colts, and would play better against the Colts. He misjudged Hoyer, and it's fair to say that to the extent his decision was based on an expectation that Hoyer would play better than he had played, Pettine can justifiably be criticized for that.

 

[I-77 NORTH]

I just dont get this.

A year ago, Brian Hoyer was in the same position that Manziel is in now - A BACKUP to a non-effective QB, who when given his chance, show the level he was capable of taking this team too (not far at all, afterall.)

One year later, history is nearly repeating itself - We have QB we know isn't capable of being elite, nor is effective enough to close out or win games when the fate is in his hands. We witnessed that, we know it. There is no longer a question mark facing Hoyers future.

But there is a question mark, when you look at Manziel.

The problem is that we still have the capability of making it to the playoffs, and this organziation is afraid to risk that in Manziel's hands. So they'll continue to dry out the chances Hoyer has to prove himself until those playoff chances are gone. Then, in goes Manziel................to play for nothing but the opportunity to prove himself for the 2015 season.

 

[Coyote850]

Simple fact is the offense has lost faith in Hoyer. You've got a talented (if inexperienced) waiting in the wings. You gotta start JFF this week.

 

[The Voice]

There's no real basis for saying this, especially given Vick's early career struggles to find any consistency aside from his legs.

All in all, it's a horrible example which in no way backs up your point or discounts mine.

I'm looking for two years or less of collegiate experience and immediate success in the NFL.

You won't find one, hence why sitting a guy like Manziel makes sense as long as the team is in the hunt.

Immediate success in the NFL is hard to find even if they have 4 years of college experience.

In Vicks first year being a starter, he led the team to the playoffs.


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[Randolphkeys]

And ugh, it didn't take a keen eye to see who cost us that game yesterday. You've just got to take the blinders off- you still taking Hoyer over Tony Romo and Cam Newton Keys?

Cosmokramer is is making great points if I didn't change my position in the past two months. But my posts have indeed changed. Hindsight is easy when one guy is playing and the other guy is mostly known for a commercial for YWCA aerobics... or diabetes... I am still making heads or tails of that commercial.

I don't know how else to say it. He's given us the QB equivalent of anal leakage. Just uncontrollable shit, embarrassed looks for everyone involved, and stained bed sheets. Sorry Keys, his mediocre first half of the season doesn't cover up the stench of the past few weeks.

Again, if my posts hadn't changed from the end of the Houston game, great point. I've stopped saying Hoyer is playing well enough to win since then. The question is now: How ready is Johnny Football? He was clearly outplayed by Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, and even Mettanberger in preseason games.

 

[AZ_]

Immediate success in the NFL is hard to find even if they have 4 years of college experience.

In Vicks first year being a starter, he led the team to the playoffs.

Give Manziel his legs and you'd have a rational comparison. The Falcons offense was based solely around a rushing attack because Vick couldn't pass, Manziel doesn't have that same skill-set.

Just a terrible comparison.

 

[Maximus]

I'd like to see them work in some Connor Shaw packages with Manziel. He is the most accurate passer on the team...knows the playbook better than Manziel too.

 

[Ruken]

It's this let him learn while he plays mentality that has led us to destroy so many young quarterbacks since 1999. You people cherry pick players like Tom Brady, a hall of famer, to support your argument.

Lets look at the evidence:

Didn't know the playbook at A and M and did not play in a pro style offense

Admitted he wasn't ready when the season started

Coaches have refused to put him him despite Hoyer struggling.

All leads anyone with any logic to believe he isn't ready and to throw him in now, would be dumb.

Moving to people discussing Luck and Wilson. Luck is a once in a generation talent, four year player in a pro style offense. Wilson was also a four year player surrounded by talent the Browns don't have. He was not asked to do much his first few years.

Aaron Rodgers, enough said.


I don't understand how people can ignore the mountains and mountains of evidence that rushing rookies by and large simply doesn't work. There are three games left, if he is ready let him play but if he isn't, you sit him.


And stop using college stats as a definitive measure for success, they mean nothing.


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[The Human Q-Tip]

He was clearly outplayed by Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, and even Mettanberger in preseason games.

So was Hoyer. They both sucked about equally in preseason, and Hoyer played better only after he (and the rest of the offense) got regular season reps.

 

[AZ_]

We're taking pre-season stats seriously now.

Lord help us.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Coaches have refused to put him him despite Hoyer struggling. All leads anyone with any logic to believe he isn't ready and to throw him in now, would be dumb.

Did you miss last week's game or something? Because the coach actually did "throw him in" during the Buffalo game. And afterwards, said that he'd been ready since week 8, and they'd been discussing the QB situation since then.

Before that game, and before those statements, it may have been fair to infer that the coaches thought Manziel "wasn't ready." But after that game and those statements, you're actually contradicting the coaching staff.

The reality is not complicated, and has been stated explicitly by the head coach himself. Both QB's are/were "ready", but Pettine thought Hoyer would play better against Indy than he did against Buffalo.

He was wrong.

 

[Chris]

If Manziel, after two years of college, isn't ready to take over the reigns of a competitive NFL team in his first season...then he's done.

Dear lord, here I am being the voice of reason in defending Johnny Manziel.

Not really what I said.

If he isn't ready to take some snaps as an NFL starter, then yes, get rid of him. People are talking as if this guy cannot EVEN FUNCTION as an NFL quarterback right now. I don't think anyone is expecting him to come in and win the Superbowl for us or even take us to the playoffs. But if coach Pettine is so worried about Manziel that he believes the rookie cannot even play under center right now without spontaneously combusting, then the guy clearly must not even have the ability to be an NFL quarterback at this point. He's been (or should be) absorbing the playbook and preparing to come in at any moment since he got drafted. He needs to be ready to at least play.

I know you thrive off being snide and making facetious comments, but good lord, please. You knew exactly what I meant but you just couldn't resist.

 

[Ruken]

Did you miss last week's game or something? Because the coach actually did "throw him in" during the Buffalo game. And afterwards, said that he'd been ready since week 8, and they'd been discussing the QB situation since then.

Before that game, and before those statements, it may have been fair to infer that the coaches thought Manziel "wasn't ready." But after that game and those statements, you're actually contradicting the coaching staff.

No I'm just not gullible enough to believe coach speak. Do you honestly think he would publicly say oh no he isn't ready and then have to immediately backtrack is he was forced to play Johnny. That is what we call backing youself into a corner

 

[AZ_]

Not really what I said.

If he isn't ready to take some snaps as an NFL starter, then yes, get rid of him. People are talking as if this guy cannot EVEN FUNCTION as an NFL quarterback right now. I don't think anyone is expecting him to come in and win the Superbowl for us or even take us to the playoffs. But if coach Pettine is so worried about Manziel that he believes the rookie cannot even play under center right now without spontaneously combusting, then the guy clearly must not even have the ability to be an NFL quarterback at this point. He's been (or should be) absorbing the playbook and preparing to come in at any moment since he got drafted. He needs to be ready to at least play.

I know you thrive off being snide and making facetious comments, but good lord, please. You knew exactly what I meant but you just couldn't resist.

I don't have much to say in regards to your snide, facetious strawman arguments about not being able to function and spontaneous combustion.

 

[The Voice]

Give Manziel his legs and you'd have a rational comparison. The Falcons offense was based solely around a rushing attack because Vick couldn't pass, Manziel doesn't have that same skill-set.

Just a terrible comparison.

You asked for a qb that had success with similar years in college. I named one, so there you go. You did not say that has the same skill set as johnny.


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