Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[Chris]

You missed my point, dude. You don't have to rely on just a QB to win a Super Bowl.

I was just bringing up Dilfer, because you reference two QBs that have won a SB, but have often struggled since then at times.

So bringing what they did in the past is irrelevant. It's about now and going forward.

Wasn't making the case against Eli or Flacco as QBs and what they did. I know they're better QBs than Dilfer.

I just think in general fans get too picky, waiting for the next great QB to be on their team, and those things are rare to happen in this league.

People bitching at McCown's performance this Sunday, are the fans that I feel need to have a Brady/Rodgers guy or its bust. And they'll be living in misery maybe their entire football lives.

It honestly sounds like you agree with what I'm saying. Not sure where the confusion is. People are waiting for the next Messiah. I'd be fine with a guy that isn't on Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers' level. I'm not fine with a guy who is bottom 10-15 in the league, however.

 

[Randolphkeys]

As I watched NFL Network today for about an hour, Manziel came up several times. That bush league TMZ stunt still influences the media. Joe Thomas, as a spokesperson of the locker room, has more of a green light to say whatever he wants than the average fan or Manziel's publicity team. It's just that simple.

 

[spydy13]

As I watched NFL Network today for about an hour, Manziel came up several times. That bush league TMZ stunt still influences the media. Joe Thomas, as a spokesperson of the locker room, has more of a green light to say whatever he wants than the average fan. It's just that simple.

So should I hit you with the X too? Or should I just end our civil discussion in a non-childish way?

 

[godfather]

It honestly sounds like you agree with what I'm saying. Not sure where the confusion is. People are waiting for the next Messiah. I'd be fine with a guy that isn't on Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers' level. I'm not fine with a guy who is bottom 10-15 in the league, however.

I was just trying to make a point there are few teams in the league 100% sold on their QB.

And often see, a lot of these teams QBs struggle, too, when they're not put in the best chance to succeed.

Fans in general need to come down from overly high expectations of what the position should be.

I still can't believe some people thought McCown was just "average" or still not that good this Sunday. That's just horseshit and pisses me off to be honest. I don't even like McCown, but he's playing as well anyone could expect right now.

 

[Randolphkeys]

So should I hit you with the X too? Or should I just end our civil discussion in a non-childish way?

Childish? The button doesn't change your rep, just gives a bit of closure to an area we won't agree upon.

I disagreed with your claim that we aren't hearing from Manziel. That TMZ leak seems to have irritated the lockeroom and continues to be mentioned by the media. It was quite the blunder with a lasting influence. Thomas has the right to say whatever he wants in that situation.

I think we have been civil here. No offense meant... you just won't be changing my mind on the TMZ thing.

 

[Chris]

I was just trying to make a point there are few teams in the league 100% sold on their QB.

And often see, a lot of these teams QBs struggle, too, when they're not put in the best chance to succeed.

Fans in general need to come down from overly high expectations of what the position should be.

I still can't believe some people thought McCown was just "average" or still not that good this Sunday. That's just horseshit and pisses me off to be honest. I don't even like McCown, but he's playing as well anyone could expect right now.

Agreed.

Nothing against Ohdang but I read his post and just facepalmed. People will never be happy unless we get Goff and and never throws an INT or incompletion and dominates PFF every week.

 

[godfather]

Joe can say whatever he wants. Dude shows up, plays well almost all the time. And he's been stuck in football hell for his entire career. He can say anything he wants, even if I don't always agree.

Imagine how much some of the stuff that's gone on during his career has been weighing on him? It's hard to be a mute in his position.

 

[godfather]

Agreed.

Nothing against Ohdang but I read his post and just facepalmed. People will never be happy unless we get Goff and and never throws an INT or incompletion and dominates PFF every week.

That was partly the post the made me angry when I read. Nothing against him, he's a fine guy I'm sure, and he's allowed to have an opinion.

And look, I don't know if McCown will keep this up. But how can anyone not be 10000000% percent happy with what he's given us? Are you kidding me! I don't give a shit what his PFF is.

The guy has been playing well enough for us to win each week thus far. The shitstorm we've seen at the position over the years. I mean geez, we should be doing flips on how he's playing the position at this moment.

I love how he's playing. Anyone with eyes knows he's limited, we get it, it doesn't need to be nitpick to death. We all know he's not the most gifted QB in the world.

He under throws guys at times, his accuracy isn't that good. He sometimes takes strange sacks. I mean, he's going to do things that aren't great. But overall, he's playing well, he doesn't make that stupid mistake that kills us. He plays pretty smart overall, he plays with leadership. He's installed confidence in this offense.

He's playing the position much better than I could ask for. And if he keeps playing this way, I don't even feel the need to talk about the QB position for now.

Maybe we should start addressing Mike Pettine's shitty defense more. Because that should be concern talk at the moment.

 

[spydy13]

Childish? The button doesn't change your rep, just gives a bit of closure to an area we won't agree upon.

I disagreed with your claim that we aren't hearing from Manziel. That TMZ leak seems to have irritated the lockeroom and continues to be mentioned by the media. It was quite the blunder with a lasting influence. Thomas has the right to say whatever he wants in that situation.

I think we have been civil here. No offense meant... you just won't be changing my mind on the TMZ thing.

It's not about rep. Rep is not why I'm here.

I don't expect you to agree with my view, but I just don't understand why you would label my post that way when there were about three other that you obviously "disagreed" with. If you want to end the discussion that's fine, but just tell me that. Ending a discussion with disagrees and olds is what causes this board to devolve into a bunch of man babies instead of the place for great, sometimes contentious convos that we strive for it to be.

As for the TMZ stuff, I said at the time that it wouldn't surprise me if the clowns at lrmr who came up with the Decision were also responsible for that move (a post you liked btw). That was an obvious blunder, whether or not it came from Johnny's mind. But unless the defense is staging a protest for Johnny with their poor play or the offensive linemen not name Joe refuse to run block because their guy isn't playing QB, I'm not sure how you can say there is any lingering problems due to the TMZ fiasco considering out offense is performing at a level (at least passing wise) that it's literally never performed at before.

Anyways, have a good night.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Nobody controls your reaction to a little red X but you, bro. Didn't predict you would react this way to it at all, I just didn't feel like discussing what Joe Thomas should and shouldn't say anymore. At the end of the day, it's a Monday after a Browns win. We probably only get one or two more of these this year.

 

[Maximus]

I just didn't feel like discussing what Joe Thomas should and shouldn't say anymore.

I do...who do you think Joe Thomas has 2nd on his depth chart at QB? I know the answer...it aint Johnny.

 

[Ohdang]

I still can't believe some people thought McCown was just "average" or still not that good this Sunday. That's just horseshit and pisses me off to be honest. I don't even like McCown, but he's playing as well anyone could expect right now.

He made good plays, bad plays, and plays where he just threw a screen which I would expect anyone to make accurately. I think his bad plays outweighed his good ones, but his skills players played extremely well and we exploited matchups and got the victory.

That's my definition of below average to average. He had elite stats, but in the context of the game I thought the gameplan, YAC, and Gary Barnidge made his stats look far better than his actual play. You can disagree with me all you want, but he failed my eye test for a playoff caliber QB - which is what I would like us to have. For me "played well" doesn't mean exceeding low expectations set by years of futility, it means playing on the level of the top half of the league, and I don't think he did that. I think his skill players did though, and they should be getting the credit and we should have higher expectations from anyone who plays QB for us.

@Chris I never said I expected perfection. In fact if you actually tried reading the words I actually wrote, I said it was a positive that he only threw one pass that should have been intercepted and that was great because all NFL QB's throw a few of those per game. I do however want people to stop being happy with just being better than Spergeon Wynn, because we need a lot more than what McCown is giving us to beat teams who are actually good.

edit: though I'm freaking ecstatic he's playing well enough to keep Manziel off the field, even if I don't think he's playing well.

 

[spydy13]

I do...who do you think Joe Thomas has 2nd on his depth chart at QB? I know the answer...it aint Johnny.

I assume it's Davis you're talking about and it doesn't surprise me in the least bit. I'm sure Pettine feels the same way despite not saying anything officially.

The only thing I can't figure out is whether they sent Pettine out for pizza during that pick or if he didn't have the balls to put up a greater fight against a guy he clearly didn't like.

 

[Mr. Orange]

I think the sooner everyone puts Manziel in the Wuerffel, Torretta, T. Smith bucket, the better it will be for everyone. The heisman is meaningless at this level.

 

[Chris]

He made good plays, bad plays, and plays where he just threw a screen which I would expect anyone to make accurately. I think his bad plays outweighed his good ones, but his skills players played extremely well and we exploited matchups and got the victory.

That's my definition of below average to average. He had elite stats, but in the context of the game I thought the gameplan, YAC, and Gary Barnidge made his stats look far better than his actual play. You can disagree with me all you want, but he failed my eye test for a playoff caliber QB - which is what I would like us to have. For me "played well" doesn't mean exceeding low expectations set by years of futility, it means playing on the level of the top half of the league, and I don't think he did that. I think his skill players did though, and they should be getting the credit and we should have higher expectations from anyone who plays QB for us.

@Chris I never said I expected perfection. In fact if you actually tried reading the words I actually wrote, I said it was a positive that he only threw one pass that should have been intercepted and that was great because all NFL QB's throw a few of those per game. I do however want people to stop being happy with just being better than Spergeon Wynn, because we need a lot more than what McCown is giving us to beat teams who are actually good.

edit: though I'm freaking ecstatic he's playing well enough to keep Manziel off the field, even if I don't think he's playing well.

If his bad plays outweighed his good ones, I'm pretty sure we'd have lost. The more you type, the less sense this makes. Just my opinion. I did actually read your post, believe it or not, and I thought it was silly stuff. You imply I didn't try to read your post...last I checked, you said McCown played below average. Which I took issue with. Did you not say that?

I mean, keep talking about Spergeon Wynn, but...the guy just had a better day than any Browns quarterback in history. Nitpick his throws however you want. That fact remains. I haven't heard anybody say he is the future, or he is the answer to all our quarterback woes because I'm sure he won't play like that every game or even close to it. But he did on Sunday.

Also, 400+ yards passing with 2 TDs/1 rush TD should be good enough vs anybody, even "good teams." Not saying he is going to put up those numbers vs Denver and Arizona, simply replying to your statement that the Browns will need "more" against good teams.

Anyway, gonna have to agree to disagree on this. Don't think anyone is trumpeting McCown as the savior, me least of all. But I do think he played a heck of a game Sunday and is the biggest reason the Browns won.