Kareem Hunt: One Pissed Off Runner!

[ajz20]

Of course it's a gamble, but it's one we've taken before.. Gordon did not work out, but it was worth a try, because had he figured it out, we might have made the playoffs, and the world might have one more functional human being..

Brantley didnt work out for us, but is still in the league rather than being a ruined person somewhere in florida..

I think you can take risks on people provided the boundaries are set and you stick to them, which Dorsey has demonstrated he will do. I think the rest of the team will understand this as well, because most people have been in situations where forgiveness makes a difference..

There was a ton of wasted time and energy on Josh Gordon that could have been put to better use. Hopefully the distraction is minimal here. The key is going to be what type of shape he is in after the suspension. Who knows if the Browns want to match an offer if and when he becomes a RFA and if he is a Brown long term. I could see it go both ways.
Really would rather the team not have to worry about too many guys off the field. You already have a few guys in the locker room that don’t need the bad influence such as Calloway as I have read Hunt tends to hang out with some very questionable people off the field.

I would hope he realizes that has to stop. Much rather you fill guys in the locker room who are obsessed with football and winning a super bowl and not guys that want to be out to 2 am and party with thier friends . Hunt is a great talent but he def comes with baggage. The one good thing is you can get rid of him right away if need be.

 

[col63onel]

Keeping those things in mind...why not sign him right now? What’s the downside here, besides PR? I am sure Dorsey and the Browns have talked with Hunt extensively about a “zero-tolerance” policy before signing. So if like you said, he actually can’t stay out of trouble in the next few months, he’ll get cut, and it’ll be no real sweat off the Browns back.

I agree, except I think "PR" hit is more than just a PR hit. If he does get in trouble, we became the team who tried to give a million dollars to someone with a violent history before we knew if he did it again. And I have a problem with that.

 

[Kiddo]

Love this signing. The whole incident seems a little strange with him not being charged and also the woman not pressing charges. I would never hit a woman but clearly she was in the wrong at least little. Add a couple great defensive players and the division is ours!

 

[camakazee]

If Dorsey thinks he can keep Hunt in line we just added a 23-year-old elite RB for peanuts.

I don't need to tell anyone Pat Mahomes was amazing this year, but after Kareem Hunt was suspended after Week 11 Mahomes and the entire KC offense took a step back.

Before then the Chiefs' offense had been nearly unstoppable- 36.2 points a game while leading the AFC @ 9-2 with both losses coming on the road, by a field goal, to both the Super Bowl participants this year.

After losing Hunt they went 3-2 and didn't break 32 points apart from a couple wins against the Raiders.

I don't have NFLwowzy to empirically show Mahomes numbers with Hunt on the field as opposed to without, but the drop-off after the suspension was noticeable (per game numbers):

Mahomes (Week 1-11)
264-391 (67.2%), 329.8 PaYds, 3.4 PaTDs, 0.9 INTs, 9.3 YPA

Mahomes (Week 12-17)
119-189 (62.9 %), 293.8 PaYds, 2.6 PaTDs, 0.4 INTs, 7.8 YPA


The point I'm trying to make here- Kareem Hunt's versatility was a major component of Pat Mahomes making the leap into an MVP-level passer this year.

Hunt was definitely a key part of the KC offense, but they didn’t miss much of a beat after he was gone. You pointed out a slight PPG drop and a 3-2 record without the context that three of those five games were against playoff teams (Bal, Lac, @Sea).

Furthermore, you posted Mahomes’ stats, but actually failed to mention that the Chiefs ran for just as many yards per game without Hunt (116.2) than with (115.8). Damien Williams went from special teams to a 5-yard per carry back. While Hunt is/was better than Williams, don’t discount the luxury of running behind a good offensive line, having the MVP at QB, and playing on the offensive side of the ball under Andy Reid.

 

[brownsbuck6]

I learned a valuable lesson in the last 24 hours, in my humble opinion.

When this news of Hunt first came down, my vision of it was he hauled off and caved her face in. In fact, I saw multiple descriptors saying just that. It made him seem like a monster and I wasn't even interested in looking at a video like that. That sort of thing is disgusting and I don't need to see it. I have a daughter, like mr hot pixie cut is my wife dude I am also a "feminist" husband, I would suppose. I have no room and no respect for that type of shithead dude.

The Browns signed him and my honest, hypocritical instinctual response was "awesome!!".. upon reading others opinions and self reflection, that response kinda disgusted me about myself. I'm actually willing to sell out those principals for my favorite sports team? That's just kinda gross.

So, then, I read so many opinions.. most valid (those asking why we need him from a football perspective are truly the ignorant ones and not at all valid). I *finally* watched the video and was like..

That's it? That's all that happened???

It's some drunken idiots being drunken idiots. It's not ok, Kareem has to be held to a much higher standard than the average person for sure. He has served alot of punishment already - not the least of which is the average idiot like me judging him completely without taking the time to view all the facts. Just went with the tsunami of hate and just figured he's another scumbag. And he has more punishment to come which, if I'm being honest, I'm not even sure that's appropriate seeing as how he wasn't even charged with anything. But I digress.

Now upon reflection, alot of the moral indignation I read here and elsewhere comes off exactly the same. You either didn't watch the video or absolutely refuse to factor in situational nuance, etc. If you really believe this is the same as say Ray Rice, you've lost your damn mind. I don't know how people can be so rigid and unrelenting in their judgements as if they never fucked up in life.

Then when you consider the environment Kareem came from, the shit people that have always been present in his life, it starts to crystallize why he has multiple black marks on his character. He has a steep uphill climb from what he came. I hope and believe he's getting counselling he needs, and the Browns will put structure and oversight in place to give him every chance to cut that behavior out. It's up to Kareem now.

But he's not some monster and he is redeemable. I now feel like the Chiefs rushed to judgement, just like the public. They panicked. They could have suspended him internally pending gathering facts, but they tossed him like yesterday's trash. Their prerogative I suppose, but I do not feel his transgressions match up with deserving banishment from the league. Not to this point anyway.

Yes the Browns took a PR hit, both with some fans and nationally. Yes, that will fade. If he grows as a person, we have a special player on our hands for absolutely nothing. I no longer feel badly about being excited about that. I trust that Dorsey reviewed the facts that I refused to (and, I believe, some in here still do) and decided he deserved a chance.

Edited to add: I just read the piece in the Athletic pretty much outlining much of this. Detailed what a horrible environment that he came from, and how Dorsey knows and cares about this dude since he drafted him and - yes, because of his elite talents - wanted to try to help him set things right and course correct. If you have The Athletic, give it a read.

Shades of grey.. things are not so black and white.

 

[dark2332]

I am also curious about the timing.

We can debate all we want about what an appropriate punishment is. But why sign him now? Were other teams on the verge of signing him? Why not wait and see if he can stay trouble free longer than 3 months before you sign him?

Even if you think this is a great move, why do it now?

Per Schefter, the Bears, Browns, and even the Chiefs were all considering signing him before the suspension is announced.

That is expected soon, thus the desire to do it know.

The benefit is getting him set up with professional counseling through the team and establishing a support system for him prior to the lengthy suspension.

Now there is a plan in place for rehabilitation before he is likely suspended from facilities. The commissioner’s exempt list, which he currently is on, allows access—just not with team activities.

 

[Chris]

I think most hear that he “hit a woman!” and assume it was a domestic violence situation, which is obviously a very terrible thing. Many probably have not seen the video.

Anyway, if Hunt only plays a few games with us this was probably a waste of time.

 

[Huber.]

Dorsey's getting killed in here

 

[Chris]

Dorsey's getting killed in here

John have you spoken to domestic violence shelters in your research?!

Foh

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Just own that winning games is priority #1 to you and that you don't really care how they get there. I won't agree with you, but I'll at least respect your honesty.

This is flat out ridiculous. Just because someone thinks one particular incident is not worth a lifetime ban means they wouldn't care about any incident, no matter how severe? How sanctimonious can you get? People are only "honest" if they see the situation and details exactly as you do?

Let's say she was pregnant, he beat the shit out of her, and she miscarried. Are you claiming that the people here who don't oppose signing him for the incident on video would be equally supportive of signing him if the incident was that much worse?

 

[Steve_424]

Clearly Hunt's behavior on that night was despicable and I see absolutely nobody defending or even rationalizing that behavior.

It was a drunken fiasco and in my lifetime I've seen way worse. Hell, I recall worse brawls involving both sexes at high school parties and others in bars where everyone ended up just going their own ways afterwards. For the record I think those people were drunken assholes and I usually stayed clear, those things blow up quickly and they blow over quickly just like this incident.

Domestic violence and violence against women is truly despicable and horrific, but this doesn't fall into that category. This was a bunch of drunken and immature people acting like total assholes, with plenty of blame to go around. Clearly people who lose control should stay away from alcohol and that includes Hunt and the girl.

Clearly Hunt has to completely put an end to anything remotely resembling this type of behavior moving forward. He's on strike 2 and totally under the microscope.

Love this signing. The whole incident seems a little strange with him not being charged and also the woman not pressing charges. I would never hit a woman but clearly she was in the wrong at least little. Add a couple great defensive players and the division is ours!

That's it? That's all that happened??? It's some drunken idiots being drunken idiots. It's not ok, Kareem has to be held to a much higher standard than the average person for sure. He has served alot of punishment already - not the least of which is the average idiot like me judging him completely without taking the time to view all the facts. Just went with the tsunami of hate and just figured he's another scumbag. And he has more punishment to come which, if I'm being honest, I'm not even sure that's appropriate seeing as how he wasn't even charged with anything. But I digress.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

Let's call it like it is - Kareem Hunt attacked a woman. If it makes one feel better to say, "Well he didn't hurt her that bad", I guess do what makes you feel better. But if we're keeping it real, there are some - I'd even say many - that don't care that he attacked a woman as long as he helps win football games. I don't agree with that mindset, but to each their own. But to those people I'd say this - just own it - enough with the "I just think he deserves a 2nd chance!" and the "but what did she do first?" or the "it's not as bad as (insert other deadbeat athlete)" or my personal favorite, "He wasn't even charged!" Just own that winning games is priority #1 to you and that you don't really care how they get there. I won't agree with you, but I'll at least respect your honesty.

Why do people view this as so binary? Either you only care about winning football games or you’re a moral person who won’t support someone who assaulted a woman

What about those of us who wanted to see Hunt back in the league even before the Browns signed him? The ones who believe that someone can change and don’t believe that this should end their entire career. The ones that don’t view going to anger management and alcohol counseling as a joke, but someone who might genuinely be remorseful and trying to change the way he is

Those of us that don’t think society should be so quick to throw a person away as @chrisrich91 said in a post much better than I can say

But don’t act like everyone who supports this Hunt signing is only about winning. That’s just trying to moral high ground others

 

[Vee-Rex]

Vee-Rex's 27-year old, pixie-cut hot wife said it isn't a big deal. Case-closed. Why are people still discussing Hunt?

@Steve_424 and everyone,

I do want to say that, despite my opinion on the video itself - under no circumstances do I accept or condone domestic violence or abuse of women, or assault/abuse of any kind. Nor do I think something like that should be taken lightly. I hope my post wasn't taken that way. I truly offer my sympathies to anyone who is a victim of some kind of assault.

Hunt clearly has an issue with his anger and I hope he is getting the right help for it and learning from this whole thing.

 

[Steve_424]

This is flat out ridiculous. Just because someone thinks one particular incident is not worth a lifetime ban means they wouldn't care about any incident, no matter how severe? How sanctimonious can you get? People are only "honest" if they see the situation and details exactly as you do?

Let's say she was pregnant, he beat the shit out of her, and she miscarried. Are you claiming that the people here who don't oppose signing him for the incident on video would be equally supportive of signing him if the incident was that much worse?

If he helped win football games, yes, some (not all) people would be fine with signing the devil himself.

 

[TheLand1287]

I learned a valuable lesson in the last 24 hours, in my humble opinion.

When this news of Hunt first came down, my vision of it was he hauled off and caved her face in. In fact, I saw multiple descriptors saying just that. It made him seem like a monster and I wasn't even interested in looking at a video like that. That sort of thing is disgusting and I don't need to see it. I have a daughter, like mr hot pixie cut is my wife dude I am also a "feminist" husband, I would suppose. I have no room and no respect for that type of shithead dude.

The Browns signed him and my honest, hypocritical instinctual response was "awesome!!".. upon reading others opinions and self reflection, that response kinda disgusted me about myself. I'm actually willing to sell out those principals for my favorite sports team? That's just kinda gross.

So, then, I read so many opinions.. most valid (those asking why we need him from a football perspective are truly the ignorant ones and not at all valid). I *finally* watched the video and was like..

That's it? That's all that happened???

It's some drunken idiots being drunken idiots. It's not ok, Kareem has to be held to a much higher standard than the average person for sure. He has served alot of punishment already - not the least of which is the average idiot like me judging him completely without taking the time to view all the facts. Just went with the tsunami of hate and just figured he's another scumbag. And he has more punishment to come which, if I'm being honest, I'm not even sure that's appropriate seeing as how he wasn't even charged with anything. But I digress.

Now upon reflection, alot of the moral indignation I read here and elsewhere comes off exactly the same. You either didn't watch the video or absolutely refuse to factor in situational nuance, etc. If you really believe this is the same as say Ray Rice, you've lost your damn mind. I don't know how people can be so rigid and unrelenting in their judgements as if they never fucked up in life.

Then when you consider the environment Kareem came from, the shit people that have always been present in his life, it starts to crystallize why he has multiple black marks on his character. He has a steep uphill climb from what he came. I hope and believe he's getting counselling he needs, and the Browns will put structure and oversight in place to give him every chance to cut that behavior out. It's up to Kareem now.

But he's not some monster and he is redeemable. I now feel like the Chiefs rushed to judgement, just like the public. They panicked. They could have suspended him internally pending gathering facts, but they tossed him like yesterday's trash. Their prerogative I suppose, but I do not feel his transgressions match up with deserving banishment from the league. Not to this point anyway.

Yes the Browns took a PR hit, both with some fans and nationally. Yes, that will fade. If he grows as a person, we have a special player on our hands for absolutely nothing. I no longer feel badly about being excited about that. I trust that Dorsey reviewed the facts that I refused to (and, I believe, some in here still do) and decided he deserved a chance.

Edited to add: I just read the piece in the Athletic pretty much outlining much of this. Detailed what a horrible environment that he came from, and how Dorsey knows and cares about this dude since he drafted him and - yes, because of his elite talents - wanted to try to help him set things right and course correct. If you have The Athletic, give it a read.

Shades of grey.. things are not so black and white.

The Chiefs mainly cut him because he lied to them about the incident. It was the loss of trust thing that made them cut him so quickly, IIRC.

Great post, and kudos to you for viewing the situation outside of black and white lenses. It's what I was trying to argue yesterday right after the signing. It's NOT the same as Ed Hardy or Ray Rice. But everyone was too busy on their high horse calling it "gross" or "disgusting". Whatever dude. God forbid people view things on an individual and situational basis, but that would require not being lazy thinkers. Those same people would be bitching if the Steelers or Ravens signed him and he went for 200 yards against the Browns. Condemning Dorsey for not taking a chance on him. It is what it is. I'm glad to have Hunt on the team, hope he gets the emotional and mental help he needs, and that he and the Browns do great things together.