Kyrie Irving

[Nathan S]

So just to be clear, we like Kyrie again now, right?

I won't be convinced until I see a vine of him in the gym. Until then I will continue to assume that he's just a lazy kid who randomly became good at basketball one day.

 

[RedBlackAttack]

It's great to have a potential superstar who:

A. Isn't afraid to go out and help the front office get guys who can help the team.

B. Can put two words together without making an embarrassing grammatical mistake.

C. Understands he isn't perfect and knows the things he has to work on to get better.

His critique of his own game last night sounded like it came straight from some of his biggest critics on this site. He isn't afraid to talk about the things he doesn't do well and that's a good sign as a young player. We'll see if he can take those words and put them into action, but his flying out to Vegas and personally putting together practices with teammates is a major step in the right direction.

The reason why some people are harsh with Kyrie is because his ceiling is so high, we all want him to get there. Being a superstar isn't just about receiving the accolades when things go well, but being held to a higher standard when it comes to the weak points. Kyrie seems to be embracing that extra added pressure.

 

[6.19.2016]

Re: Dion Waiters

There's a difference between be in shape to make it through the season and being a true professional athlete who is in supreme condition. He doesn't have a professional body at this point and his injuries may very well be the result of that.

Again, no one is saying he's lazy yet, but this is the year to see a more mature Kyrie. It's time to become a true professional.

At least he's staying in better shape than Ben Roethlisberger does...

<img src="http://drunkathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Ben_Vegas4-400x400.jpg">

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I won't be convinced until I see a vine of him in the gym. Until then I will continue to assume that he's just a lazy kid who randomly became good at basketball one day.

Honest question for you and Brickman. If training camp begins, and it becomes apparant that Kyrie has not noticeably improved his conditioning/strength, would you agree that it would be fair to criticize him at that point for his failure to do so?

 

[Alec]

Dbl post

 

[Alec]

Honest question for you and Brickman. If training camp begins, and it becomes apparant that Kyrie has not noticeably improved his conditioning and strength, would you agree that it would be fair to criticize him at that point for his failure to do so?

Excuse my broscience, but it's very difficult to do both.

Considering the nature of basketball and Kyrie's play style, I think getting super-conditioned is the correct avenue. He depends on his quickness and shooting to be an offensive threat. His lateral quickness and fast hands (and 90% more effort) will make him a better defender. He's not getting posted up regularly...Not every man has the genetics to reach the Jordan/LeBron sweet spot of super-jacked who can play 48 minutes if needed. And we won't know if Kyrie can until he naturally fills out with maturity.

Basketball drills and hypoxic training should be his regiment.

 

[Nathan S]

Excuse my broscience, but it's very difficult to do both.

Considering the nature of basketball and Kyrie's play style, I think getting super-conditioned is the correct avenue. He depends on his quickness and shooting to be an offensive threat. His lateral quickness and fast hands (and 90% more effort) will make him a better defender. He's not getting posted up regularly...Not every man has the genetics to reach the Jordan/LeBron sweet spot of super-jacked who can play 48 minutes if needed. And we won't know if Kyrie can until he naturally fills out with maturity.

Basketball drills and hypoxic training should be his regiment.

Just what I was thinking and you put it into words well. Kyrie's never going to be a guy who overpowers his opponents, and guys like Nash, Nowitzki, and Durant have made it clear that it's possible to be a dominant offensive force without relying on athleticism. Defense is much the same. There's a minimum level of strength and athleticism that you need, but beyond that point how good you are depends much more on skill and experience. So I'm not too worried about whether or not he'll become a bowling ball like Waiters or Jack.

Conditioning, on the other hand, is crucial. As is clear from his off-the-charts crunch time stats, Kyrie's 100% is better than almost anyone else's 100%. He just needs to be able to give closer to 100% for more minutes. It won't be as easy to judge his progress on this front, so I'll be patient. Good signs would be, of course, more hustle on defense, and more consistent attacking on offense (and I suspect the change of coaching will help on both of these fronts). I am hoping for some progress there, but I realize it's a long-term process...not as simple as adding 10 pounds of muscle. As I implied with my earlier post, I'm not as worried as some about Kyrie slacking off, so unless there's clear evidence to the contrary I'll continue to assume that he's working hard at his game. I'll be perplexed for sure if he completely fails to improve, but I really don't expect that to happen. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

[chuck0609]

Re: Dion Waiters

At least he's staying in better shape than Ben Roethlisberger does...

<img src="http://drunkathlete.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Ben_Vegas4-400x400.jpg">

Ben got two rings.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Excuse my broscience, but it's very difficult to do both.

No, it isn't remotely difficult to do that.

Considering the nature of basketball and Kyrie's play style, I think getting super-conditioned is the correct avenue. He depends on his quickness and shooting to be an offensive threat. His lateral quickness and fast hands (and 90% more effort) will make him a better defender. He's not getting posted up regularly...Not every man has the genetics to reach the Jordan/LeBron sweet spot of super-jacked who can play 48 minutes if needed. And we won't know if Kyrie can until he naturally fills out with maturity.

I don't think anyone's talking about him bulking up to look like Dion or Wade. We're talking about higher reps, maintaining/improving flexibility, and improving conditioning. Plenty of athletes and non-athletes have done that. Asking/expecting him not to get gassed when playing normal minutes is not unreasonable. The GM has made that point.

But in any case, again -- do you think it's fair to criticize him if he reports to training camp without noticeably improving his conditioning? It's puzzling to me that a fair number of fans seem to be going with the concept that we should just be happy to have someone that talented, and that we shouldn't criticize him for fear that we'll hurt his feelings and he'll leave for some place with lower expectations.

 

[*L-Train*]

Gery Woelfel

As if Kyrie Irving isn't good enough, he's been hitting the weight room this summer and is distinctly stronger.

Bucks beat writer...let's hope he's right

 

[Cashius X]

Just what I was thinking and you put it into words well. Kyrie's never going to be a guy who overpowers his opponents, and guys like Nash, Nowitzki, and Durant have made it clear that it's possible to be a dominant offensive force without relying on athleticism. Defense is much the same. There's a minimum level of strength and athleticism that you need, but beyond that point how good you are depends much more on skill and experience. So I'm not too worried about whether or not he'll become a bowling ball like Waiters or Jack.

Conditioning, on the other hand, is crucial. As is clear from his off-the-charts crunch time stats, Kyrie's 100% is better than almost anyone else's 100%. He just needs to be able to give closer to 100% for more minutes. It won't be as easy to judge his progress on this front, so I'll be patient. Good signs would be, of course, more hustle on defense, and more consistent attacking on offense (and I suspect the change of coaching will help on both of these fronts). I am hoping for some progress there, but I realize it's a long-term process...not as simple as adding 10 pounds of muscle. As I implied with my earlier post, I'm not as worried as some about Kyrie slacking off, so unless there's clear evidence to the contrary I'll continue to assume that he's working hard at his game. I'll be perplexed for sure if he completely fails to improve, but I really don't expect that to happen. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

You made a lot of good points but one area where I disagree with you is concerning the importance of Kyrie getting bigger and stronger. Yes, Kyrie has more of a finesse game and doesn't really rely on his athleticism but getting stronger would help him out a lot. I don't ever envision him becoming a bull of point guard like Deron Williams but getting a lot stronger would tremendously help his game considering how refined how post game his. I could see him posting "smaller" guards up kind of like Chris Paul does now. If he does this not only would he conserve energy by scoring in easier ways but adding strength would also definitely help him on the defensive end.

And there's no reason why he can't overpower his opponents. He's already one of the bigger point guards in the league at 6'3.

 

[BKnight's Ankle]

Kyrie DID show flashes of a mid post game last year, will he ever be Billups level of a post player? No. But it would be nice if he can use that for smaller PG's.

 

[Nathan S]

You made a lot of good points but one area where I disagree with you is concerning the importance of Kyrie getting bigger and stronger. Yes, Kyrie has more of a finesse game and doesn't really rely on his athleticism but getting stronger would help him out a lot. I don't ever envision him becoming a bull of point guard like Deron Williams but getting a lot stronger would tremendously help his game considering how refined how post game his. I could see him posting "smaller" guards up kind of like Chris Paul does now. If he does this not only would he conserve energy by scoring in easier ways but adding strength would also definitely help him on the defensive end.

And there's no reason why he can't overpower his opponents. He's already one of the bigger point guards in the league at 6'3.

It's too soon to say for sure, obviously, but I get the feeling he's pretty close to his natural build right now.

Also, not all post games are predicated on power. Length and footwork are arguably just as important, as Livingston showed us last season. The guy weighs what, 150 pounds? :chuckles:

 

[The Process God]

For those who missed Kyrie's interview during yesterday's Summer League game:

- Said he set up meetings with other players to work out with each other. Got there Monday.
- Hasn't met Anthony Bennett, who is rehabbing his shoulder in Cleveland
- Knows he needs to grow as a leader and take charge on both ends of the floor
- Has been watching Bynum for a long time. Looking forward to playing with him if he comes (trying not to get fined)
- Time is now to make the playoffs and contend
- Says the difference between the good and great teams is putting in extra time during the summer
- On he and Dion - "Last year, it was a 'your turn, my turn' type of offense, which was predictable...we need to learn how to play off each other"
- "I love Andy...I love Andy" (Face literally lit up when Varejao was mentioned)
- Said defensive improvement starts with him up top, taking the challenge every night to stop the opposing point guard
- Said Tristan is a workhorse and a core piece
- "Cleveland fans, (it's) gonna be something special next year, I can guarantee that"

You say that Kyrie's face lit up when talking about Andy, yet the camera didn't show Kyrie's face for even a second while he was talking about Andy. :chuckles:

Btw, here's a sweet video of Kyrie swerving last year.

[video=youtube;AIJMJGeW-b4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIJMJGeW-b4&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

 

[AuxiliaryPie]

from NBA Memes ..not necessarily good but it is Kyrie related