Kyrie Irving

[DatDudeZ3]

Just give Kyrie the max extension Griffin/Gilbert and keep our star here for years to come with Embiid/Parker/Wiggins... Kyrie is a guy that when you put better players around him, he plays much better and the better his teammates, the more he trusts them which will help his play making ability. Now that we are starting to add real talent this off-season (#1 pick, tons of cap space for vets via trade/FA) I think we will honestly see Kyrie take a big step forward next year in play on the court and leadership. It would be a wise decision to offer it to him, no doubt.

 

[catfish]

Do you have any data to support your assumptions?

Just give Kyrie the max extension Griffin/Gilbert and keep our star here for years to come with Embiid/Parker/Wiggins... Kyrie is a guy that when you put better players around him, he plays much better and the better his teammates, the more he trusts them which will help his play making ability. Now that we are starting to add real talent this off-season (#1 pick, tons of cap space for vets via trade/FA) I think we will honestly see Kyrie take a big step forward next year in play on the court and leadership. It would be a wise decision to offer it to him, no doubt.

 

[Cavatt]

I have real doubts about whether the guy can improve. I think he is a smart player, but I never hear him say that he ever did anything wrong or has anything to improve on. He seems very self-aware, but I haven't seen it in regards to his game. He has never

1. Seen a shot he doesn't like
2. Talked about reviewing film and seen things he is doing wrong
3. Learned how to pass out of a double team
4. Time a post entry pass properly
5. Shown that he can rally the troops
6. Shown that he can play passable defense for anywhere near the length of an NBA game

I haven't seen any growth in these areas, and it is disturbing. He is a bit of a chucker, and he hasn't been known to make the easy play. I really want him to use the strengths of his teammates, but I haven't seen that either.

He was supposed to have this transformation where he led the team last year, and instead he pouted and laid eggs in important games.

Right now if you asked me who has more upside, I would have to go with Dion as he has actually worked on his weaknesses and shown more overall growth since he was drafted. I am not trying to make a Dion vs Kyrie argument, it is just that when you hear a Dion interview he talks about what they can actually do better, and you realize he is working on his game. On the other hand, I don't see a single thing that I think Kyrie has really improved on since his first year. I'd really like him to prove me wrong. Show some guts.

 

[Cashius X]

Wow. Took me this long to realize that Dion had a more efficient season than Kyrie. Better %'s across the board except for from the FT line. Pretty surprised by this. I know many around here thought this would never happen. Me included. The way Dion ended the year really helped his numbers. I know many will claim, "Mike Brown held Kyrie back" but Dion had to deal with the same circumstance.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6442/kyrie-irving
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6628/dion-waiters

 

[chuck0609]

I have real doubts about whether the guy can improve. I think he is a smart player, but I never hear him say that he ever did anything wrong or has anything to improve on. He seems very self-aware, but I haven't seen it in regards to his game. He has never

1. Seen a shot he doesn't like
2. Talked about reviewing film and seen things he is doing wrong
3. Learned how to pass out of a double team
4. Time a post entry pass properly
5. Shown that he can rally the troops
6. Shown that he can play passable defense for anywhere near the length of an NBA game

I haven't seen any growth in these areas, and it is disturbing. He is a bit of a chucker, and he hasn't been known to make the easy play. I really want him to use the strengths of his teammates, but I haven't seen that either.

He was supposed to have this transformation where he led the team last year, and instead he pouted and laid eggs in important games.

Right now if you asked me who has more upside, I would have to go with Dion as he has actually worked on his weaknesses and shown more overall growth since he was drafted. I am not trying to make a Dion vs Kyrie argument, it is just that when you hear a Dion interview he talks about what they can actually do better, and you realize he is working on his game. On the other hand, I don't see a single thing that I think Kyrie has really improved on since his first year. I'd really like him to prove me wrong. Show some guts.

Im glad Dion is starting to enter this conversation. Dion showed quite a bit of progress last year, especially when Kyrie was off the court. His defense is vastly superior and, the team played better with him when Kyrie was hurt.

Can one imagine core of Embid/Wiggins, Dion and dare say a Kevin Love (flipping Kyrie for him or some combo trade)? You'd hold Loves sign and trade rights if it fails miserably. If they hire Chicago's assistant will Deng stay? You still maintain assets while upgrading into a perrennial playoff team...

 

[supermario21]

Heck if Kyrie were gone Windhorst made it seem like LeBron would be more likely to come back. I personally think Dion is more of an alpha dog than Kyrie.

 

[godfather]

I think George Karl would turn Kyrie back into an elite player. Even Michael Jordan, the greatest player to have ever played the game, was referred to as a black hole once offensively.

I'm not comparing Kyrie to that man, I'm just using an analogy, that if the greatest player to have ever played the game had deficiencies, ones that needed to improve in order to take his team to the next level, then Kyrie at 22 gets a pass.

I want to see how he does under a really good coach first, before we jump to conclusions he needs to be traded, he's a bad fit, doesn't make others better, can't improve, and the long list of other problems fans point to with Kyrie.

I think its absolutely asinine to even entertain trading him, without seeing what this guy can do under a real coach. If Kyrie does want out, it might have more to do with the bad coaching staff than anything to do with Cleveland.

Why should he be happy? His game deteriorated (under Mike Brown) and we were just a pubic hair better than what we were last season.

Why fault the kid for expecting to do it all himself, and not have any real guidance to help him out. We've done not only a horrific job making the right coaching hires for him. First Byron Scott, too much of a buddy for Kyrie, then Mike Brown, a walking disaster for Kyrie.

We've also failed to bring in real veteran leaders for Kyrie. I guess Jack was supposed to be that guy, but it didn't work out. He's basically been asked to get better, learn on the fly, without any real help along the way.

I think if you do that to a lot of young players, they're going to struggle. LeBron James was just the rare exception.

This organization just has to become more functional first. Let's not act like Kyrie is the root of the problem, we've just help create a problem in him.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Heck if Kyrie were gone Windhorst made it seem like LeBron would be more likely to come back. I personally think Dion is more of an alpha dog than Kyrie.

Your best scorer/player doesn't necessarily have to be your alpha dog.

 

[Ohio]

Wow. Took me this long to realize that Dion had a more efficient season than Kyrie. Better %'s across the board except for from the FT line. Pretty surprised by this. I know many around here thought this would never happen. Me included. The way Dion ended the year really helped his numbers. I know many will claim, "Mike Brown held Kyrie back" but Dion had to deal with the same circumstance.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6442/kyrie-irving
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6628/dion-waiters

Wow that's incredible. Kyrie needs to get his shit together. His calling card was efficiency and he's regressed every year in that category.

Meanwhile, Ball Hard is trending the right way. Nice to see.

 

[Cassity14]

I share the thinking that the right coach turns Kyrie into the best point guard in the NBA. George Karl would get the dude playing at a faster pace and in more space than he's ever seen and the world would be his to command offensively. Get him a weapon at #1, an athletic, healthy Bennett, and hopefully a sidekick in Dion and this would be a hell of an offense. I don't know much about Billy Donovan from an Xs and Ox standpoint, but he seems to always have his guards playing at high levels as well. Kyrie looked mortal because he didn't play in any sort of system last season. Even Scott's system wasn't the best for Irving, but we saw his mastery in a spacious 2 man game with Varejao. Get Kyrie in a system where he can make reads to get any situation he likes when he isn't pushing the tempo down the other team's throat and I believe we can definitely see him as a burning young star. That same coach, however, has to keep him in check mentally.

If Kyrie wants it, and if the Cavs bring in the right guy, he can be an MVP caliber player. That hasn't changed.

 

[Derek]

Wow. Took me this long to realize that Dion had a more efficient season than Kyrie. Better %'s across the board except for from the FT line. Pretty surprised by this. I know many around here thought this would never happen. Me included. The way Dion ended the year really helped his numbers. I know many will claim, "Mike Brown held Kyrie back" but Dion had to deal with the same circumstance.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6442/kyrie-irving
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6628/dion-waiters

Kyrie's TS% year by year
.566
.553
.533

Dion's TS% year by year
.492
.508

Sorry. Even with Dion's improvement last year, he still wasn't close to Irving in terms of efficiency.

 

[godfather]

I share the thinking that the right coach turns Kyrie into the best point guard in the NBA. George Karl would get the dude playing at a faster pace and in more space than he's ever seen and the world would be his to command offensively. Get him a weapon at #1, an athletic, healthy Bennett, and hopefully a sidekick in Dion and this would be a hell of an offense. I don't know much about Billy Donovan from an Xs and Ox standpoint, but he seems to always have his guards playing at high levels as well. Kyrie looked mortal because he didn't play in any sort of system last season. Even Scott's system wasn't the best for Irving, but we saw his mastery in a spacious 2 man game with Varejao. Get Kyrie in a system where he can make reads to get any situation he likes when he isn't pushing the tempo down the other team's throat and I believe we can definitely see him as a burning young star. That same coach, however, has to keep him in check mentally.

If Kyrie wants it, and if the Cavs bring in the right guy, he can be an MVP caliber player. That hasn't changed.

Even if Kyrie says he wants out, I still wouldn't look to trade him, at least yet.. He's got at least this year, and next year left. I think it's a dumb idea to trade a guy as talented as him right away. Most of his frustrations are probably due to the fact, well, not only did we not improve, but his game took a hit. People can call him selfish, a diva, or anything they want, but it's only human nature for any athlete to be very frustrated by that.

If this team improves, and the right coach allows Kyrie's game to explode onto the scenes, that changes everything very fast. I say don't panic, Dan Gilbert, and just start making some of the right moves around him. I don't mean just for him, the entire team. This isn't about catering to Kyrie specifically, it's about making the entire team as a whole better, and that obviously includes Kyrie.

Last season was a disaster, that probably put a sour taste in most of the players mouth. If we can get rid of the sour taste, then things change fast once again.

 

[Cashius X]

Kyrie's TS% year by year
.566
.553
.533

Dion's TS% year by year
.492
.508

Sorry. Even with Dion's improvement last year, he still wasn't close to Irving in terms of efficiency.

Because Dion's FT shooting drags him way down. It was an anomaly this year.

Regardless Dion is trending up.

 

[bigfoot5415]

If he cant get excited about playing with
Dion Waiters
Anthony Bnnett
Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, or Joel Embiid.

Then the kid is a loser and doesn't give a damn about winning.


Not often can you build a team like that pretty quickly and stay way under the luxury tax.

 

[Derek]

Because Dion's FT shooting drags him way down. It was an anomaly this year.

Regardless Dion is trending up.

His FT shooting still counts. He wasn't as efficient as Irving this year, which was what was originally said.

You could just as easily say that Irving's dip in efficiency was an anomaly.