Kyrie Irving

[melecoaze]

If he cant get excited about playing with
Dion Waiters
Anthony Bnnett
Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, or Joel Embiid.

Then the kid is a loser and doesn't give a damn about winning.


Not often can you build a team like that pretty quickly and stay way under the luxury tax.

right? who in their right mind wouldnt want to play with anthony bennett?

 

[Cashius X]

His FT shooting still counts. He wasn't as efficient as Irving this year, which was what was originally said.

You could just as easily say that Irving's dip in efficiency was an anomaly.

No, because Kyrie's %'s have been trending downwards since he got in the league.

Dion's FT shooting was an anomaly last year. Even going back to his college days, Dion was a career 75% FT shooter. His rookie season he shot 75% from the line as well. To come out and shoot 68.5% is an anomaly.

He was more efficient than Kyrie last year which is supported by his FG% and 3 Point %. If you want to argue that EFG% proves Kyrie was more effective then go ahead. I don't feel like arguing semantics. Be me guest.

 

[Derek]

It's not semantics. One player was more efficient, it was Irving. If you can't understand that then you'd don't understand what efficiency is.

It's tough to say Irving was "trending downwards" when his first two seasons were incredibly efficient. One season just happened to be slightly less efficient than the other.

 

[godfather]

Because Dion's FT shooting drags him way down. It was an anomaly this year.

Regardless Dion is trending up.

You can't disregard free throw shooting at all. It's very critical and underrated aspect to a scorers game. Really, Kyrie does need to improve getting to the foul line more often. He still averaged 4.8 free throws a game, which is not bad, but I think he could bump that up to 7 at least. This is not only better than Waiters, but not to mention he's a lot better foul shooter.

Getting to the foul line a lot is a skillset. People bitch about Wade getting a lot of calls, because he knows how to. Refs don't just hand over fouls to players that easily, despite what fans want to believe. Sure, there might be a little favoritism for certain players, but bottom line Kyrie needs to master drawing contact better than he does. He's too skilled not to.

 

[Cashius X]

It's not semantics. One player was more efficient, it was Irving. If you can't understand that then you'd don't understand what efficiency is.

It's tough to say Irving was "trending downwards" when his first two seasons were incredibly efficient. One season just happened to be slightly less efficient than the other.

No, I understand stats like TS% and EFG% but when people say one player is more efficient than another, what do they use as a measuring stick? FG%. When people labeled Dion as a chucker and said Kyrie was more efficient, what did they use to support their opinions? FG%. When people have general conversations about who is more efficient than who, what stat do they use? FG%. EFG isn't the end-all be-all when it comes to efficiency.

And no. Kyrie is one of my favorite players but he's been trending downwards since he got in the league. As his minutes and output increase his efficiency worsens. Simple as that. Hopefully next season he breaks that trend.

 

[Derek]

No, I understand stats like TS% and EFG% but when people say one player is more efficient than another, what do they use as a measuring stick? FG%. When people labeled Dion as a chucker and said Kyrie was more efficient, what did they use to support their opinions? FG%. When people have general conversations about who is more efficient than who, what stat do they use? FG%. EFG isn't the end-all be-all when it comes to efficiency.

And no. Kyrie is one of my favorite players but he's been trending downwards since he got in the league. As his minutes and output increase his efficiency worsens. Simple as that. Hopefully next season he breaks that trend.

Nobody with any bit of basketball knowledge would do that. Using FG% to evaluate efficiency is beyond ignorant.

TS% actually is pretty close to the end-all be-all of scoring efficiency. The only thing it doesn't account for is usage, which Kyrie had a higher level of.

Kyrie's efficiency took a slight hit in his second year when his minutes increased. New coach, new system, same minutes, and hit efficiency took a slightly larger hit. Seems like an anomaly if I've ever seen one.

 

[Cavatt]

No, because Kyrie's %'s have been trending downwards since he got in the league.

Dion's FT shooting was an anomaly last year. Even going back to his college days, Dion was a career 75% FT shooter. His rookie season he shot 75% from the line as well. To come out and shoot 68.5% is an anomaly.

He was more efficient than Kyrie last year which is supported by his FG% and 3 Point %. If you want to argue that EFG% proves Kyrie was more effective then go ahead. I don't feel like arguing semantics. Be me guest.

It doesn't even matter because like you say one guy is trending up, and one is trending down. All I said is I want to see some improvement. Dion was a lot better at the end of the year and it raised his year long averages. That is great to see.

I literally cannot tell that Kyrie has worked on his game in 3 years. I'm just calling it like it is. He is more Tyreke than Chris Paul to me right now. I desperately want to be wrong. I want him to be the best pg in the league.

 

[Cavatt]

Nobody with any bit of basketball knowledge would do that. Using FG% to evaluate efficiency is beyond ignorant.

TS% actually is pretty close to the end-all be-all of scoring efficiency. The only thing it doesn't account for is usage, which Kyrie had a higher level of.

Kyrie's efficiency took a slight hit in his second year when his minutes increased. New coach, new system, same minutes, and hit efficiency took a slightly larger hit. Seems like an anomaly if I've ever seen one.

First of all, the very first post on this matter said that Dion was more efficient in every percentage besides ft%. Did you not read that?

Secondly, the entire point was about improvement. Are you happy with Kyrie's improvement? About what you figured when you saw him as an 18 year old in the NBA, that that would be his best year statistically?

Your efficiency stats are not telling you what actually happened over the course of the year. They are averages, and it doesn't tell you how one player improved and one regressed.

 

[Derek]

First of all, the very first post on this matter said that Dion was more efficient in every percentage besides ft%. Did you not read that?

Secondly, the entire point was about improvement. Are you happy with Kyrie's improvement? About what you figured when you saw him as an 18 year old in the NBA, that that would be his best year statistically?

Your efficiency stats are not telling you what actually happened over the course of the year. They are averages, and it doesn't tell you how one player improved and one regressed.

You obviously aren't looking at the post to which I responded initially.

 

[Rich]

No, I understand stats like TS% and EFG% but when people say one player is more efficient than another, what do they use as a measuring stick? FG%. When people labeled Dion as a chucker and said Kyrie was more efficient, what did they use to support their opinions? FG%. When people have general conversations about who is more efficient than who, what stat do they use? FG%. EFG isn't the end-all be-all when it comes to efficiency.

And no. Kyrie is one of my favorite players but he's been trending downwards since he got in the league. As his minutes and output increase his efficiency worsens. Simple as that. Hopefully next season he breaks that trend.

I guess stupid people would use that as a measuring stick. Who thinks that a guy who makes three out of six 2 pointers (50%) is more efficient than a guy who makes two out of five 3 pointers (40%)? They scored the same amount of points only the guy who shot 3s did it in fewer attempts.

FG% is a really stupid and antiquated way to measure efficiency.

 

[The Process God]

These articles are stupid. Kyrie has the talent to be a top 10 or even top 5 player. The Cavs can't afford to watch that walk away or trade it for pennies on the dollar. The only way Kyrie is leaving is if he has indicated he will not be staying here.

 

[Cashius X]

I guess stupid people would use that as a measuring stick. Who thinks that a guy who makes three out of six 2 pointers (50%) is more efficient than a guy who makes two out of five 3 pointers (40%)? They scored the same amount of points only the guy who shot 3s did it in fewer attempts.

FG% is a really stupid and antiquated way to measure efficiency.

Look in the Dion thread. Plenty of people used to call him a chucker and cite his poor FG% as the main reason why.

I guess a significant portion of RCF is stupid then. And the NBA for continuing to use that stat.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

We've also failed to bring in real veteran leaders for Kyrie. I guess Jack was supposed to be that guy, but it didn't work out. He's basically been asked to get better, learn on the fly, without any real help along the way.

I think if you do that to a lot of young players, they're going to struggle. LeBron James was just the rare exception.

This organization just has to become more functional first. Let's not act like Kyrie is the root of the problem, we've just help create a problem in him.

The simple solution is to get Antawn Jamison back in the mix.

 

[Triumph36]

Nobody with any bit of basketball knowledge would do that. Using FG% to evaluate efficiency is beyond ignorant.

TS% actually is pretty close to the end-all be-all of scoring efficiency. The only thing it doesn't account for is usage, which Kyrie had a higher level of.

Kyrie's efficiency took a slight hit in his second year when his minutes increased. New coach, new system, same minutes, and hit efficiency took a slightly larger hit. Seems like an anomaly if I've ever seen one.

lol would bet a lot of money the average nba fan has no idea what ts% even is. or efg%. sabermetrics is decently well known these days, but as far as basketball goes most people are still in the dark age.

sad but true. similar to people thinking ppg is indicative of scoring ability (hi carmelo anthony).

Look in the Dion thread. Plenty of people used to call him a chucker and cite his poor FG% as the main reason why.

I guess a significant portion of RCF is stupid then. And the NBA for continuing to use that stat.

pretty sure people call him a chucker because his ts% and efg% are both really awful. and his shot selection sucks.

 

[Cashius X]

pretty sure people call him a chucker because his ts% and efg% are both really awful. and his shot selection sucks.

Go look in the thread.