Kyrie Irving

[Cashius X]

Some fans are willing to overlook Kyrie's poor defense. I do not. If you think good offense + horrible defense = elite player, then you don't understand what an elite player is.

All-Star Game MVP (Even if he hadn't been voted in as a starter the coaches still would've put him in as a reserve), Starting PG for the 2014 USA Team, Rising Stars Challenge MVP, One of the greatest rookie seasons of all-time and although his next two seasons would be "disappointments' they're nothing to scoff at either. Oh, and not to mention the fact that he's a 22 year old playing on a maximum contract...a signing widely regarded as a no-brainer by executives leaguewide. If a player on a maximum contract shouldn't be considered part of a "Big X" then what type of player should?

Kyrie is already a star player in this league and he has the potential to blossom into a superstar player. He's got the skills, the brand, and the charisma of an NBA star. To say we have a "Big Two" as opposed to a "Big Three" is so ridiculous on so many levels that I'm actually unwilling to debate this any further.

Think what you want but just know that you're wrong.

 

[CavsFTW]

All on lottery teams in their primes. Try harder next time but 3/10 for effort

Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Bosh, and Love.

Great players on bad teams. Suggesting that team play is a fair indicator of an individual's impact is careless and ignorant. Each of the players you highlighted had made a measurable on court impact before joining forces. Irving's impact? Below league average all 3 seasons. What makes Irving "BIG" is the unsubstantiated hype generated by those who ignore the fact that Irving is a defensive liability -- arguably the worst of all PGs.

Kevin Pelton ranked Kyrie the #1 most overrated player last season for the same reasons.

Most NBA people believe James Harden is elite but he doesn't play defense either. Kyrie is certainly one of the most talented guys in the NBA and if he wasn't elite last year then he certainly will be with Lebron James on the team with him. Kyrie will show better effort on Defense I feel, just like he has for Team USA. He is absolutely going to be a part of our Big 3 this year.

Harden IS elite. His offensive impact ranks among the top 3 the past 2 seasons. Irving's offensive impact isn't even close, and isn't even enough to offset the negative impact he puts out on the defensive side.

 

[Scholar]

Some fans are willing to overlook Kyrie's poor defense. I do not. If you think good offense + horrible defense = elite player, then you don't understand what an elite player is.

So, you are saying that Steve Nash was never ever elite at any time in his career because he was certainly weak at defense. He won an MVP. Whether he should have is a different discussion. But, to do so you have to be at least, on some level, be playing in the Mr Elite neighborhood.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

Big 3s should include impact players only. Garnett, Pierce, Allen. James, Wade, Bosh. All were impact players before joining forces.

Same goes for Love.

Irving has NEVER been an impact player thanks to his matador defense. LeBron and Love have been light years better. Had he posted even an average RAPM last season, the Cavs probably would've made the playoffs (and would've lost out on LeBron/Love, but that's a different discussion). Maybe he'll become part of a Big 3, but right now that's just wishful thinking.

Btw...

I'd take Irving over Rose every day and twice on Sunday. Both are injury prone and overrated, but at least Kyrie has functioning legs and a reasonable chance at becoming elite.

So you're saying we're back to square one, our only star is LBJ.

Stop this argument now man...you're going to lose because what you're saying is absurd.

 

[amil99]

Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Bosh, and Love.

Great players on bad teams. Suggesting that team play is a fair indicator of an individual's impact is careless and ignorant. Each of the players you highlighted had made a measurable on court impact before joining forces. Irving's impact? Below league average all 3 seasons. What makes Irving "BIG" is the unsubstantiated hype generated by those who ignore the fact that Irving is a defensive liability -- arguably the worst of all PGs.

Kevin Pelton ranked Kyrie the #1 most overrated player last season for the same reasons.

Harden IS elite. His offensive impact ranks among the top 3 the past 2 seasons. Irving's offensive impact isn't even close, and isn't even enough to offset the negative impact he puts out on the defensive side.

You just contradicted yourself. First you cant be elite if you dont play defense. Then try to cover your tracks by saying Harden is elite for his offense. I wont be so lenient this time. 1/10

 

[Cavsengland]

Big 3s should include impact players only. Garnett, Pierce, Allen. James, Wade, Bosh. All were impact players before joining forces.

Same goes for Love.

Irving has NEVER been an impact player thanks to his matador defense. LeBron and Love have been light years better. Had he posted even an average RAPM last season, the Cavs probably would've made the playoffs (and would've lost out on LeBron/Love, but that's a different discussion). Maybe he'll become part of a Big 3, but right now that's just wishful thinking.

Btw...

I'd take Irving over Rose every day and twice on Sunday. Both are injury prone and overrated, but at least Kyrie has functioning legs and a reasonable chance at becoming elite.

Sigh. I thought you where gone forever wum. However this post is a lot better than your previous post. Have you been working on how not to be an obvious wum While you've been away?

Also Where would you rank kyrie in a list of pgs? I'm asking this, because you constantly call him overrated, when hardly anyone overrates him.

 

[Cavsengland]

Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Bosh, and Love.

Great players on bad teams. Suggesting that team play is a fair indicator of an individual's impact is careless and ignorant. Each of the players you highlighted had made a measurable on court impact before joining forces. Irving's impact? Below league average all 3 seasons. What makes Irving "BIG" is the unsubstantiated hype generated by those who ignore the fact that Irving is a defensive liability -- arguably the worst of all PGs.

Kevin Pelton ranked Kyrie the #1 most overrated player last season for the same reasons.

Harden IS elite. His offensive impact ranks among the top 3 the past 2 seasons. Irving's offensive impact isn't even close, and isn't even enough to offset the negative impact he puts out on the defensive side.

Non of those players are point guards.

Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Bosh, and Love.

Great players on bad teams. Suggesting that team play is a fair indicator of an individual's impact is careless and ignorant. Each of the players you highlighted had made a measurable on court impact before joining forces. Irving's impact? Below league average all 3 seasons. What makes Irving "BIG" is the unsubstantiated hype generated by those who ignore the fact that Irving is a defensive liability -- arguably the worst of all PGs.

Kevin Pelton ranked Kyrie the #1 most overrated player last season for the same reasons.

Harden IS elite. His offensive impact ranks among the top 3 the past 2 seasons. Irving's offensive impact isn't even close, and isn't even enough to offset the negative impact he puts out on the defensive side.

No one cares about kevin pelton.

 

[Cashius X]

Sigh. I thought you where gone forever wum. However this post is a lot better than your previous post. Have you been working on how not to be an obvious wum While you've been away?

Also Where would you rank kyrie in a list of pgs? I'm asking this, because you constantly call him overrated, when hardly anyone overrates him.

There's a way to disagree without being insulting you know...

 

[priceFTW]

Most NBA people believe James Harden is elite but he doesn't play defense either. Kyrie is certainly one of the most talented guys in the NBA and if he wasn't elite last year then he certainly will be with Lebron James on the team with him. Kyrie will show better effort on Defense I feel, just like he has for Team USA. He is absolutely going to be a part of our Big 3 this year.

Harden's defense is terrible, but his elite offensive efficiency, a by-product of all the calls he gets, makes him a healthy net positive when you consider ORAPM MINUS DRAPM. The same is true of prime Nash, one of the greatest offensive players ever, with huge offensive impact numbers (some of the highest ORAPM numbers of any player ever that we have numbers for) to offset poor defense. With better efficiency, Kyrie's offensive impact should increase; combine that with a modest improvement on defense and you will have a +2 RAPM type player.

 

[Cavsengland]

There's a way to disagree without being insulting you know...

Nothing I said was insulting.

 

[godfather]

Kyrie isn't considered a big 3, and he doesn't impact the game? Are people delusional? Sure, he has holes in his game and he like many players at his age can improve.

This team wouldn't have won 20 games last year without him, despite all his flaws and his off year.

 

[Cashius X]

Nothing I said was insulting.

You keep calling him a "wum"...

 

[kookoo]

Kyrie is showing improvements on defense. He played awesome on a team he knew was going nowhere... Think about how well he's going to play on a team that has a shot. There is also a coach who doesn't take shit and a future HOFer who will keep him in line. I don't think anyone is going to call him overrated at the end of this season, and you'll see that he's definitely a part of the 'Big 3' in Cleveland. Especially considering he was the 'Big 1' last season.

 

[Cavsengland]

You keep calling him a "wum"...

Do you even know what it means/stands for?

 

[godfather]

I know Kyrie gets a lot of flack for not making the playoffs yet, but sometimes you got to judge who he is playing with. This team was not that good. He only had one legit starter in Waiters, and half the time he wasn't starting. He started the year with a mess of Bynum, Alonzo Gee/Clark at small forward, Jackass playing along side of him. Andy ended getting hurt. Deng came over and never played that well like we figured. We made the trade for Hawes, who I did like, but it was kinda too little too late.

That team was a mess. Sure, someone like Chris Paul, LeBron James, and Durant would have made the playoffs with that team, but I can't think of many other players that probably would have.

Kyrie wasn't put in the greatest situation, and he himself had a rough year. Despite all that chaos, we were still close to making the playoffs.

We don't know yet what Kyrie can do it terms of winning. We've yet to have a team truly capable of doing anything. This year we are going to find out.