Love/Wiggins Trade Revisited

[Randolphkeys]

There are a lot of articles out there which were written by the national media for one reason and one reason only:

Keep the Minnesota Timberwolves fans - who saw their team drop from a .488 win percentage to a .195 win percentage - off suicide watch as their former face of the franchise wins a championship with Cleveland. This was a brutal year to be a Timberwolves supporter.

 

[Chris]

I remember some people were talking about wanting to trade Kyrie instead. Not fans, but just outside noise bringing it up. Chad Ford said he thinks Wiggins will be the better of two.

That's where I put the breaks, and say stop. I don't think he'll ever be as good as Kyrie. No way, no how. You can tell from day one, Kyrie had what it took to be an MVP talent in this league.

I see all-star with Wiggins, but I've never seen that same "wow" I saw with Kyrie from day one.

He will never be able to score at the level Kyrie Irving can.

Kyrie will need to become a floor general imo if he wants to ever be in mvp conversation. I dont think its unrealistic to say Wiggins could become the better player. Right now Kyrie impacts the game immensely as an offensive talent but how else? On this team he really is just another SG which is actually what we want him to be. Thats why he works so well here. But how effective would he be on a squad that needs a guy run the offense and set up teammates?

 

[godfather]

Kyrie will need to become a floor general imo if he wants to ever be in mvp conversation. I dont think its unrealistic to say Wiggins could become the better player. Right now Kyrie impacts the game immensely as an offensive talent but how else? On this team he really is just another SG which is actually what we want him to be. Thats why he works so well here. But how effective would he be on a squad that needs a guy run the offense and set up teammates?

Allen Iverson, Tony Parker, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook are a few point guards, that never were considered floor generals, that have had great success on their team.

This has been talked about in lengths, especially in the Kyrie thread, Kyrie doesn't need to become a true authentic point guard to be seen as an MVP candidate, or superstar.

Maybe he's a shooting guard, I prefer the term combo guard, but why should that diminish him as a player? I mean, Kobe Bryant for example was never a floor general. Since he's bigger, and more the prototypical sized shooting guard, it's okay.

Kyrie's size, automatically makes fans say "hey he needs to be a real point guard to be great", and I just never really understood that argument. There are different ways you can be great, that shouldn't be seen as dismissive with Kyrie.

I am just using an analogy that you can't fault a guy for something he simply is not. That shouldn't diminish his talent, or what he can do as a basketball player.

 

[randymoss1881]

There are a lot of articles out there which were written by the national media for one reason and one reason only:

Keep the Minnesota Timberwolves fans - who saw their team drop from a .488 win percentage to a .195 win percentage - off suicide watch as their former face of the franchise wins a championship with Cleveland. This was a brutal year to be a Timberwolves supporter.

If you think it will hurt timberwolves fans if love wins a ring than your mistaken. They'll gladly take wiggins/towns over love. Having the worst record is a good thing how some of you can say otherwise is mind boggling and hypocritical.

 

[Chris]

Ill go with combo guard.

Im too lazy to check cuz im on my ipad but Rose averages plenty more assists than Kyrie at least. Maybe he isn't a true floor general but he sets up his teammates more. Im guessing the same can be said about a few of the other guys you listed.

I do agree though, im not faulting him. Hes clearly uber talented...he just isnt a true PG at this point and likely never will be. ill be happy if he just starts affecting games with elite defense and not just scoring.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Who is this "everyone?" He's the most popular athlete right now, at least in the NBA. People love him. His schlong gets slobbered nonstop to the point it is annoying for those whose team he isn't playing for.

We get it...you hate the guy you've never met. But nobody here actually cares that much because you don't seem to want to listen to reason. Can we move on?

To be fair, one of my best friends was dating a Cavs girl back when LeBron was here the first time, and he said every time he met LeBron he was an asshole. I'm not going to say he's human garbage or anything, and he obviously does a lot of good for his community, but that doesn't mean he's not a dick. I've heard too many stories that paint him that way from a number of people to discount them.

Then again, I've never met him, so I can't say anything from first hand experience. All I'm saying is that you can give money to charity and still be a prick.

 

[Chris]

People probably just butthurt he wouldnt sign their sneakers or talk to them like hes their friend or something. As for his charities, personally a mans actions describe his character far more than how personable he is with people he doesnt know. Thats my belief.

 

[Randolphkeys]

If you think it will hurt timberwolves fans if love wins a ring than your mistaken. They'll gladly take wiggins/towns over love.

I understand educated fans know they need a complete rebuild. They need two stars to begin looking at another playoff run. I do think there are other more casual fans of the NBA who want a winner and don't look that deeply into a rebuild. I have old friends who felt that way in 2011 and 2012 about the Cavaliers. Those are the fans who are being catered to with articles that hyperbolize what Wiggins can do right now. What Wiggins will someday become is anybody's guess.

I also can't help but notice the Wolves don't have the top pick yet. The Cavaliers might have gotten lucky in the lottery a few times, but they were screwed by the luck of the draw in the Anthony Davis draft. Lottery balls will dictate who gets Towns.

Having the worst record is a good thing how some of you can say otherwise is mind boggling and hypocritical.

Queue up Bob Dylan's Times Are a Changin'. For some fans, a win percentage below 20% means switching to Vikings season tickets instead. That's how it goes for some fans, but not all. As one of the guys who kept the fire going over here during the Ramon Sessions/Lionel Hollins era, I've earned my honesty.

 

[LeShaq]

If you don't see a star when you watch wiggins then there's something wrong there.

It's not there, at least not yet.

Both Wiggins and Irving were ages 19/20 in their rookie season. Here's how they looked in their rookie seasons. I'll put Love's rookie stats in there as well. Love was 20 years old his entire rookie season, so he was like 6 months older than Wiggins and Kyrie when they were rookies.

Wiggins Rookie
17/5/2 stats per 36 minutes on 13.8 FGA
.517 TS%
13.9 PER (22.6% usage)
-1.25 RPM
103/114 ORTG/DRTG
.034 WS48
-0.2 VORP

Irving Rookie
22/4/6 stats per 36 minutes on 17.3 FGA
.566 TS%
21.4 PER (28.7% usage)
-0.1 RAPM (not the same as RPM)
109/110 ORTG/DRTG
.125 WS48
+2.1 VORP

Love Rookie
16/13/2 stats per 36 minutes on 12.1 FGA
.538 TS%
18.3 PER (21.0% usage)
-1.2 RAPM (not the same as RPM)
112/109 ORTG/DRTG
.124 WS48
+0.5 VORP

As a rookie, Love led the league in Offensive Rebounding %.

Irving and Love had substantially better rookie numbers than Wiggins did, and they were either the same age as Wiggins as rookies or within 6 months of Wiggins' age as rookies.

If I wanted to win a dunk contest, I would take Rookie Wiggins over Rookie Irving and Rookie Love. If I wanted to win NBA basketball games, then I would choose both Rookie Irving and Rookie Love over Rookie Wiggins.

Wiggins may end up being a star or even superstar in the league. But his rookie stats don't seem to make the case conclusively, particularly when they are compared with the stats of other past rookies.

 

[MirORich]

Sure. Everyone who's actually met him knows he's a scumbag though.

That's all I'm gonna say.

Sorry man, I use that word for people who actively and intentional do physical and emotional harm to other people

Not for things like the most famous basketball player wanting money to appear at a club opening, expecting free shit at Clubs you go to, not being friendly with fans who are approaching him outside of an NBA arena, etc.

 

[Zen]

If the love trade nets us even one championship the trade was an incredible success.

A market like Cleveland winning a championship is ridiculously rare. I understand what wiggins people are saying but quite frankly you shouldnt try to build for a 10 year window when your team hasnt won in 50 years.

We have the best player in the planet at 30 years old simply because he was born here. Lets focus on just winning once and what a remarkable feat that would be before we start talking about contending for a decade to come.

 

[Cavatt]

Letting a guy play through his mistakes wasn't in the cards this year. However, if I said I was confident in Love for the playoffs, I'd be lying.