Mass Effect 3

[Triplethreat]

White:

Right now with all of those observations and evidence laid out, it's definitely pointing more and more towards indoctrination or hallucination due to trauma/blood loss on Shepard's part.



EDIT (also in white):

In the sequence where Shepard confronts the Illusive Man with Anderson, he's not wearing his armor -- he is wearing his normal clothing that he wears on the Normandy or in a generally non-hostile environment. That, coupled with the fact that he wakes up in a pile of rubble where he and his squad were attacked by the Reaper, leads me to believe that there is definitely something more than meets the eye when it comes to the ending.

White: Actually he is in his armor, only his armor is melted and completely mangled from the Reaper beam if you look closely enough.

 

[MD13]

white: For me, the biggest part to the whole indoctrination theory is how the citadel/catalyst deliberately states that Shepard will die (because he's part synthetic) if he chooses to destroy the reapers and the rest of synthetic life, but that's also the only ending where you see him getting up amidst the rubble. Therefore you can't trust anything it says, including the fact that all Geth will die. It also seems to push the other two choices much more, for obvious reasons. Controlling the reapers is the same tactic that indoctrinated the illusive man, as the Prothean VI says. And if you remember ME1, Saren was the ultimate synthesis of organic and synthetic life, but he admitted he was wrong and killed himself. Also, Reapers seem to be the pinnacle of synthesis, since they're made from organics to begin with.

 

[MD13]

From snooping with google even more, here's something I found that explains the theory pretty well *white*:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423/321

Full Comprised List of Evidence for New Comers:
1) The Theory isn't "Shepard has always been indoctrinated since the beginning of ME3". Its "Harbinger is attempting to indoctrinate Shepard AFTER Shepard is hit by the beam".
2) The moment Shepard wakes up, Coats reports that nobody made it to the Conduit, yet Shepard is walking towards it.
3) Depending on your EMS, you'll either see your squadmates dead (low) or not there (high).
4) Despite that area being completely destroyed, there are three trees in the area.
5) You have unlimited ammo through the game, even when you're at the Citadel and there's nothing to shoot at.
6) Shepard's Gun = Shepard's Willpower
7) Once you're inside the Citadel, Anderson says he followed you in. Yet, he gets to the console first and if he did indeed follow you in, why did he not report to Coats that Shepard and him are heading inside?
8) All the dead bodies have the same face and are bald.
9) Anderson notes that the walls are moving. Recall back to the Derelict Reaper in ME2. If you listened to the logs, the scientists noted that they had shared memories, the walls moved, things appeared, etc. It can also be noted that Anderson says "it's dark like the Collector base".
10) Parts of the citadel look like parts from the Shadow Broker base.
11) You may have noticed "1M1" on a part of the Citadel. To your left, it's "1M1". To your right, it's reversed/mirrored. "1M1" is also a part of optics.
12) Illusive Man appears out of nowhere.
13) There are "oily, black" lines around the screen whenever the indoctrinated Illusive Man speaks or does something significant.
14) Despite the Citadel being closed, you can see cars driving in the back ground.
15) If you choose the Paragon route, Illusive Man will commit suicide a la Saren style.
16) Hackett talks to the Commander while on the Citadel... but it was reported that no one made it. So how did Hackett know Shepard was in the Citadel?
17) When lifted up, the Starchild is a "ghostly presence".
18) Depending on your EMS, the Starchild will either say an angry "Why are you here?" (low) or a calm, yet commanding "Wake Up" (high).
19) The Starchild's voice is a mixture of MaleShep, FemShep, and the child's VA. Some claim you can also hear Harbinger.
20) The Starchild puts emphasis on how bad that Destroy ending will be by noting that you would kill synthetic life, including the Geth. He also mentions that Shepard is partially synthetic, implying you will die as well.
21) The Starchild will hesitate his answer when Shepard asks "And the Reapers will obey me?". He pauses for 2 seconds and then says "Yes".
22) The Starchild will say that Synthesis is the final stage of evolutionary life. This is what the Reapers always wanted.
23) By choosing Control or Synthesis, Shepard will die regardlessly. This means Shepard lost and he is fully indoctrinated.
24) Control's color is blue (Paragon) while Destroy's color is red (Renegade). Harbinger is tricking not Shepard, but the PLAYER that Control is the good ending.
25) Destroy ending is the only ending where Shepard is alive/wakes up.
26) The Normandy scene is a way for Shepard to imagine that the people closest to him are okay and that they landed on a sunny, lush planet, filled with necessary things to sustain life. Many crewmembers through out ME2 and ME3 have said they would have wanted to go somewhere "sunny" or to a "beach" (yes, there's a beach on that planet).
27) Shepard wakes up back on London because the Citadel wasn't made out of concrete. You can also hear the wind in the background. There is no wind in space or the Citadel.
28) James Vega at one point mentions "Do you hear that humming noise? Or is that just me?". EDI will also says that the Normandy still have the Reaper IFF.
29) The Dreams will get more and more details as the story progresses. At first, it's just the child you're following. The second one has whispers and "oily, black, ghostly" figures. The third one has more ghostly, black figures and more whispers. In my playthrough, I heard Liara's and Kaidan's whispers, saying "Shepard". The final one ends with Shepard hugging/embracing the kid, smiling as they both get burned.
30) Shepard has been more exposed to Reapers and Reaper tech than anyone else on the squad.
31) Notice how no one notices the child throughout the game. No one helps him get on the shuttle and Anderson doesn't ask Shepard what Shepard was doing.
32) A scared child wouldn't say "You can't help me". They would say "Help!", "Save me!", and/or "I'm scared!".
33) When Shepard turns away from the child in the beginning, you can hear a growl. In the ME Novels, Paul Grayson would hear growls when he snapped out of it. The growl is a different sound than what Reapers normally make.
34) The kid disappears in the duct, with no noise or anything.
35) In the ME artbook, the child is "the face of humanity of one that Shepard couldn't save". In a way, the Reapers (or Harbinger) is using the child to taunt Shepard, saying he cannot save them. In ME2, both throughout the main campaign and Arrival DLC, Harbinger said it is inevitable that Shepard will lose.
36) Notice how Harbinger barely speaks in ME3, yet he was a huge role in ME2. You only see Harbinger for a good minute, but he flies away when you wake up. The Child is actually Harbinger, playing on Shepard's emotion to show how weak Shepard is and that he will fail.
37) The reason why Harbinger didn't kill Shepard or force him to choose Control or Synthesis is because Shepard is still resisting. Harbinger then tries another tactic: Persuasion.
38) Indoctrinate has been a huge role throughout the ME universe. However, it is more prominent in ME3.
39) If you choose Control or Synthesis, look at Shepard's eyes. They will turn exactly like Illusive Man's and Saren's. Thus, Shepard has been indoctrinated.
If I missed anything, let me know.

 

[Marcus]

^^^ Like I said, definitely more than meets the eye. If it's truly the case (I really hope Bioware will confirm/deny in the coming days), then I'm happy that they didn't cater to the brand new players in the series and actually gave seasoned vets a meaningful, if complex, obscure, and symbolic, ending.

 

[Chris]

If this theory is true...shouldn't this mean Bioware owes us a real ending/DLC?

 

[MD13]

If this theory is true...shouldn't this mean Bioware owes us a real ending/DLC?

From reading the thread, the game hasn't even been released in Japan yet (on the 15th). Also, no one from bioware has said a word even with all the fan outrage. So I believe they have some ending DLC planned, but they're probably under a full non disclosure agreement until it's released.

 

[Chris]

From reading the thread, the game hasn't even been released in Japan yet (on the 15th). Also, no one from bioware has said a word even with all the fan outrage. So I believe they have some ending DLC planned, but they're probably under a full non disclosure agreement until it's released.

That's what I figured, but I'm just asking if you all agree that if this theory is true, we are pretty much owed something.

 

[MD13]

That's what I figured, but I'm just asking if you all agree that if this theory is true, we are pretty much owed something.

I'm pretty sure this isn't the end, and they'll release some DLC to provide a full conclusion (assuming you resist indoctrination). We might have to be patient and wait a while though...

 

[KB]

I'm pretty sure this isn't the end, and they'll release some DLC to provide a full conclusion (assuming you resist indoctrination). We might have to be patient and wait a while though...

It also better be free because if this was a plan to release "real endings" via DLC it sets a terrible standard and we may never see a complete game upon release ever again....also it begs the question about the people who don’t have internet access and the fact that those people paid for an incomplete version of the product if the “real endings” are released via DLC or patch

white:


I am can’t take the indoctrination/dream theory seriously, I think it's been brought up and accepted by people to make them feel better about the terrible ending(s) that was shipped with the game, I mean if the way the last book was handled wasn’t foreshadowing for something like this it should have been

From what I understand the ending was re-written after the script leaks, google script leaks to find the BW comments about changing things and combine that with some un-used audio pulled from Joker bombing/destroying the Reaper in the area where the run to the beam takes place and that appears to be from one of the endings in the script leaks that was removed..

Here is link concerning the possibilty of changing the script due to the leaks, something like this would explain the ending better than the indoctrination/dream theory, considering the statements were made by Ray Muzyka who is Co-Founder of BW.

http://www.vg247.com/2011/11/16/mas...ions-based-on-feedback-following-script-leak/

The part of the ending(s) that gets me is in a game were choices are supposed to matter the last choice invalidates any previous choices made from each game... I was kind of expecting a 10-15 minute cut scene that would vary depending on: past choices, amount of war assets to be combined with the final choice but it didn't play out like that which kind of kills the reply value for the entire series, which is why some are so quick to accept the indoctrination theory IMO

 

[SauDogg]

Here's a video of what you guys have been talking about

SPOILERS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbghjn7_Byc

 

[KB]

Here's a video of what you guys have been talking about

SPOILERS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbghjn7_Byc

white:

There is actually a video out there with at least 6 ending clips playing at the same time for each choice and there are only subtle differences in them...like the color of the space magic..If I wasn't at work I'd post it as youtube is blocked at my current location so I can't even see the one you posted

 

[SauDogg]

white:

There is actually a video out there with at least 6 ending clips playing at the same time for each choice and there are only subtle differences in them...like the color of the space magic..If I wasn't at work I'd post it as youtube is blocked at my current location so I can't even see the one you posted

I know what you're talking about. Here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPelM2hwhJA

 

[pr26]

For those who were asking about the storyline without Mordin (White):

It seems that his role was taken by a new salarian who is obsessed with evolution, Padok Wikks. Not sure if he appears in a game with a surviving Mordin. He is pretty Mordin like (Joker even calls him "Not Mordin" lol), but he is very pro genophage cure.

I shot him in the back in order to stop the cure, and I immediately felt like a piece of shit.

 

[MD13]

For those who were asking about the storyline without Mordin (White):

It seems that his role was taken by a new salarian who is obsessed with evolution, Padok Wikks. Not sure if he appears in a game with a surviving Mordin. He is pretty Mordin like (Joker even calls him "Not Mordin" lol), but he is very pro genophage cure.

I shot him in the back in order to stop the cure, and I immediately felt like a piece of shit.

If you feel like shit after that, watch the youtube videos WITH mordin. damn

 

[pr26]

If you feel like shit after that, watch the youtube videos WITH mordin. damn

Makes me glad he died so I didn't have to do it :chuckles: