Michael Redd?

[Lee]

Vince is a better player, and is still more athletic. But hes DEFINITELY not a better shooter from anywhere outside the paint than Redd. Stats dont tell you everythin man. If only stats mattered then youd sa Damon Jones was a better shooter than Ray Allen sometimes.

Guys like Ray and Redd are different to other shooters. The 3 is like a layup for them, so they shoot them off curls, off the dribble and in people's faces. Carter dont just shoot open jumpers either but to say hes a better shooter than Redd is mutha****in crazy.

The advantages of Vince is that hes a more versatile player meaning he'll get you more rebounds and assists, and will attack the rim more and is capable of playing great defense someimes.

But the advantages of Redd are that even though he has the ball alot, he plays very well of the ball and as a spot up shooter hes better than anyone. That means he wouldnt disrupt the chemistry as much as Vince who would need the ball alot moer to be effective. Plus you gotta give him props for bein from Ohio.

But again, either would be amazing. Redd and Carter are MUCH better scorers than the rest of the guys bein discussed, either can put up 40 or 50 on any night and have been doing so for years. I dont care who we get as long as its someone like that.

I think VC is a better shooter because he takes better shots. Redd is a chucker and I just dont think he is as good of a shooter as people say he is. VC shooting ability is underated and he is more selective about squaring up. Thats why he gets more assists, he shares the ball.

The Wince Carter phenominon does scare me a bit, but that is all. His contract is horrid, but that means we will get him for less assets ie no west or av having to go. I have to hope playing for a winning team, winning attitude and not having to be option number one will make him a better teamate. No one is perfect, or they wouldnt be on the trading block. Kobe is not coming to cleveland, but Vince is the closest thing to him, and with him starting at the 2 for the next 3 years we could have a chance to 3-peat. Stick that in your "Lebron to NY" pipe and smoke it. :chuckles:

 

[Taki]

Stephen Jackson.

Golden State are a mess right now, and Monta Ellis won't save them from being a lottery team, when he returns from injury/suspension.

Jackson is their oldest player, and he's owned $14 millions. I don't see how he shouldn't be attainable, and his contract expires after the 09/10 season which is perfect!


What about?
CLE recieves:
Stephen Jackson
Ronny Turiaf

GS recieves:
Wally
and a maybe a pick?

or

CLE recieves
Stephen Jackson

GS recieves
Eric Snow's contract
and a pick

I've been a strong advocate of getting Stephen Jackson.

 

[*L-Train*]

I've been a strong advocate of getting Stephen Jackson.

not after he signed that extension he has now 5 years left on his contract and he's already 30. also his fg percentages are horrible. i think i would prefer vince carter

 

[Taki]

All it takes to get Jackson is to trade Snow's expiring contract, so then Wally's contract can be used for an all-star caliber player.

And his fg% is fine, it will most likely rise when he'd arrive in Cleveland in a different system.

Year      Team  	G  	GS  	MPG  FG%  	3P%  	FT%  	OFF  	DEF  	RPG  	APG  	SPG  	BPG  	TO  	PF    PPG
00-01 	NJN 	77 	40 	21.6 	0.425 	0.335 	0.719 	0.5 	2.2 	2.7 	1.8 	1.1 	0.2 	1.69 	2.20 	8.2
01-02 	SAS 	23 	1 	9.9 	0.374 	0.250 	0.706 	0.1 	1.0 	1.1 	0.5 	0.6 	0.1 	1.00 	1.30 	3.9
02-03 	SAS 	80 	58 	28.2 	0.435 	0.320 	0.760 	0.8 	2.8 	3.6 	2.3 	1.6 	0.4 	2.20 	2.50 	11.8
03-04 	ATL 	80 	78 	36.8 	0.425 	0.340 	0.785 	1.2 	3.4 	4.6 	3.1 	1.8 	0.2 	2.79 	2.70 	18.1
04-05 	IND 	51 	49 	35.4 	0.403 	0.360 	0.830 	0.9 	4.0 	4.9 	2.3 	1.2 	0.3 	2.41 	3.00 	18.7
05-06 	IND 	81 	81 	35.9 	0.411 	0.345 	0.786 	0.6 	3.3 	3.9 	2.8 	1.3 	0.5 	2.51 	2.40 	16.4
06-07 	IND 	37 	32 	32.1 	0.419 	0.297 	0.822 	0.5 	2.1 	2.6 	3.1 	0.9 	0.5 	2.19 	2.40 	14.1
06-07 	GSW 	38 	37 	34.0 	0.446 	0.341 	0.804 	1.2 	2.2 	3.3 	4.6 	1.3 	0.4 	2.68 	3.00 	16.8
07-08 	GSW 	73 	73 	39.1 	0.405 	0.363 	0.832 	0.9 	3.4 	4.4 	4.1 	1.3 	0.4 	2.70 	2.30 	20.1
08-09 	GSW 	16 	16 	41.7 	0.401 	0.289 	0.792 	1.4 	3.0 	4.4 	6.4 	1.4 	0.8 	3.88 	2.40 	21.4
Career 	-- 	556 	465 	32.0 	0.418 	0.339 	0.796 	0.8 	2.9 	3.7 	2.9 	1.3 	0.3 	2.37 	2.50 	15.1

 

[Man Called X]

Nice job adding the chart Taki. Really wish more people knew how to utilize that feature. As much as I've supported SJax, I just don't see how he fits in Cleveland. At this stage in his career, he'd be better off being a 3 as opposed to a 2. If he hadn't signed that extension, I'd have been all about it, but since then... not so much.

 

[abuC]

I really don't like either Redd or Carter for this team. They both need the ball to be effective, and neither is the dominant defensive stopper we are sorely lacking.

Let's look at the primary perimeter scores on the teams we are most likely to have to go through during the playoffs:

Pistons - Allen Iverson 6'0" / TaShaun Prince 6'9"
Celtics - Paul Pierce 6'7"
Orlando - Hedo Turkoglu 6'10"
Atlanta - Joe Johnson 6'7"
Lakers - Kobe Bryant 6'6"
Houston - Tracy McGrady 6'8"

With the exception of Iverson, these are all oversize 2s and 3s. VC or Michael Redd are greatly outsized, and cannot match up against any of these players, forcing us to use LeBron as a primary defensive stopper, which, even given the offensive capabilities of VC/Redd will limit the much greater possible offensive contributions of LBJ.

~Lyuokdea

Sorry, but this is just wrong in regards to VC. First and foremost, Vince is not out sized by any of the players you listed with the exception of maybe Hedo, and Hedo plays a lot smaller than his height. You say Vince cant match up with any of these players, yet Kobe is shooting a miserable 38% over his career against Vince, nobody has done as good a job against Kobe as Vince. He can defend everyone you listed, it's quick guards like Kevin Martin & Dwyane Wade that would give him a lot of trouble, not big guards.

 

[Taki]

Nice job adding the chart Taki. Really wish more people knew how to utilize that feature. As much as I've supported SJax, I just don't see how he fits in Cleveland. At this stage in his career, he'd be better off being a 3 as opposed to a 2. If he hadn't signed that extension, I'd have been all about it, but since then... not so much.

Thanks and well, if he didn't sign the extension I don't think he'd be an option at all, I think there's no reason to worry about cap room if it means bringing a championship here, Wally's contract would still be used to get another great player.. which is why I advocate the Snow for Jackson trade proposal so much.

Although if that's not possible, I'm also ok with Wally for VC(if NJ accepts), and Snow for another good player, preferably a 4 or 5.

 

[abuC]

Vince is a better player, and is still more athletic. But hes DEFINITELY not a better shooter from anywhere outside the paint than Redd. Stats dont tell you everythin man.

They are pretty much the same in regards to jumpshooting, the last two seasons they both have taken around the same amount of jumpers and made at around the same clip which is 46%.

 

[Tizzle]

Sorry, but this is just wrong in regards to VC. First and foremost, Vince is not out sized by any of the players you listed with the exception of maybe Hedo, and Hedo plays a lot smaller than his height. You say Vince cant match up with any of these players, yet Kobe is shooting a miserable 38% over his career against Vince, nobody has done as good a job against Kobe as Vince. He can defend everyone you listed, it's quick guards like Kevin Martin & Dwyane Wade that would give him a lot of trouble, not big guards.

I agree. I can only see Vince Carter getting beat by the smaller, more quicker guards. I really can't see guards like Hedo beating him.

 

[Real_Talk]

Vince is a better player, and is still more athletic. But hes DEFINITELY not a better shooter from anywhere outside the paint than Redd. Stats dont tell you everythin man. If only stats mattered then youd sa Damon Jones was a better shooter than Ray Allen sometimes.

Guys like Ray and Redd are different to other shooters. The 3 is like a layup for them, so they shoot them off curls, off the dribble and in people's faces. Carter dont just shoot open jumpers either but to say hes a better shooter than Redd is mutha****in crazy.

The advantages of Vince is that hes a more versatile player meaning he'll get you more rebounds and assists, and will attack the rim more and is capable of playing great defense someimes.

But the advantages of Redd are that even though he has the ball alot, he plays very well of the ball and as a spot up shooter hes better than anyone. That means he wouldnt disrupt the chemistry as much as Vince who would need the ball alot moer to be effective. Plus you gotta give him props for bein from Ohio.

But again, either would be amazing. Redd and Carter are MUCH better scorers than the rest of the guys bein discussed, either can put up 40 or 50 on any night and have been doing so for years. I dont care who we get as long as its someone like that.

U make some good points, I been reading your post and I agree with a ton of things you have posted. But I can tell that you are a Micheal Redd fan and there is nothing wrong with that because alot of things u say about Redd is true, so it's not like you are lying. But far as comparing his shot to VC, you should also consider that VC can drain shots off the dribble, which is very IMPORTANT. Redd isn't as accurate off the dribble and won't drain shots off the dribble like VC can. VC is the better slasher in traffic and we both know this. Redd is the better shooter, but VC is the better offensive player/scorer.


Personally, I would rather have VC over Redd. Consider this; When Redd is having a off game, then that's that. There's nothing he can do but keep shooting and hope to get hot. If VC is having a off game, he can take it strong to the basket and get some and 1's, and perhaps get himself back into rhythm. Plus VC is more of a playmaker. But I do like Redd to and I think either player would be a great fit.

 

[sam_slam911]

Carter is the better player, I think everyone knows that. And yeah Im a Mike Redd fan. As I said, my cousin grew up with him.

Carter is the better slasher, passer, rebounder and plamaker. But Redd is able to play off the ball much better and is just a better shooter period.

And the reason Im goin for Redd over VC is that VCwill require a HUGE trade. NJ will want alot for him. Redd will cost Wally, Sasha and a pick.

Redd is the best option.

 

[Sir Charles Barkley]

Carter wont cost a lot. NJ is not a ship contender. They know that. If they are gonna trade him, its gonna be for an expiring like wally

 

[groverty]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Chat.asp?CHAT_TOPICS_ID=47
Bill Ingram mentions he heard rumors of Redd to Cleveland if the bucks go down hill which is highly likely.

I know that we all talk about how a backcourt of redd and mo didnt work in millwakee but theres a lot of factors that have to do with that. They never really had a defensive minded coach such as mike brown, there team was never really good to begin with, and for them to stay in games they were looked at to be offensive players and not defensive players. Redd proved that while he was with U.S.A bball he can be a solid defender not great but good enough ala ray allen. Mo has shown some nice defensive pressure but still needs work but i wouldnt trust anyone other than Mike Brown to teach both players how to defend.

Now i have my pros and cons about Michael Redd but he still fits a major need our team has desperately needed. He is still one of the best in game 3 point shooters, he still is Silky Smooth in his all round game and he has proven he can take over games when ever needed too. Compare him to Ray Allen. He's been a great shooter his whole career but never won anything of significance until on a really good team.

Im just starting to think Redd is still by far the best option we can get and could possibly be that missing piece to us winning it all this year.

good post...I didn't read to the end of the thread, so my apologies if this has already been discussed...but as much as I like a healthy redd, right now I wouldn't trade ANYONE (except maybe sasha). I've played competitve sports for many years and one intangible that made playing, winning, and staying together more worth it and easy than anything is team unity. These guys play so well together, and I'm not sure I would want to break it up even if on paper, it makes sense. I'm not saying close the door on exploring options, but we would hold the leverege in my mind and should have to give up less for more for a change. That's my 2 cents.

 

[samtheman67]

If they are gonna trade him it will be for an expiring , while also dumping a bad contract and taking back picks / young talent.. People just dont dump stars for expirings (even the lakers threw in crit and 2 1sts)

 

[bzim09]

Redd could be a good fit in Cleveland. I'm tired of us bringing in defensive based players and trying to teach them offense. Would'nt it be easier to teach a offensive player defense?