Moneyball Comes to Cleveland

[ajz20]

Sanchez was never anywhere close to as good as Watson has been in his first year. In fact, Sanchez was terrible his first year.

Were you thinking of someone else?

No just trying to convince himself that it is not as bad as it looks. It is the favorite past time of browns fans to do in November when reality hits. The people that are going to defend Sashi to the bitter end are going give us some great material in next few months. My favorite one is that winning games don’t matter in the first two to three years of a rebuild and that it is fine to have the worst team in the league after two off seasons and two drafts because they “ chose to do it that way”

My second favorite was someone that said people need to be patient because this team can easily win 5 games next year. As if 5 games in the third year of a rebuild is a show of some type of success. Unreal.....

 

[Jack Brickman]

No just trying to convince himself that it is not as bad as it looks. It is the favorite past time of browns fans to do in November when reality hits. The people that are going to defend Sashi to the bitter end are going give us some great material in next few months. My favorite one is that winning games don’t matter in the first two to three years of a rebuild and that it is fine to have the worst team in the league after two off seasons and two drafts because they “ chose to do it that way”

My second favorite was someone that said people need to be patient because this team can easily win 5 games next year. As if 5 games in the third year of a rebuild is a show of some type of success. Unreal.....

To be honest, at this point my only real rationale for keeping these guys around is the following:

1. We haven't done it before. We've pretty much hired and fired everyone every two years like clockwork. It hasn't worked.

2. They've at least proven to be semi-competent in the draft. That's a hell of a lot better than basically any regime we've seen since 99.

Not saying these guys are the answer. Not even going to keep defending them. I am just sick of the fucking total turnovers every two years. Fuck it. Just give these guys five and see what happens. What's the worst case? The team continues to suck like they've sucked for twenty fucking years now?

 

[PIP]

I could have sworn @PIP was drooling all over him. Talking about how the Browns fucked up by trading down with the Jets and should have taken him.

You could say kapernick as well...


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Sanchez was more than capable of leading the Browns to 0-8...Easily could have done what is being done now...

And with flair !!!

 

[OptimusPrime]

I'm just disappointed that they beat San Diego last year. It would be much more enjoyable and amusing to point out that Hue is 0-24 as the Browns head coach, rather than 1-23. Although 1-23 is pretty damn amusing. Much more entertaining than the product on the field anyway. Let's see how much fun we can have with this. Give them their 3 year plan, and maybe they can show Hue's 1-46 record before his last game as coach. Let's get it done. There has to be some sabermetric value in that.

 

[Huber.]

Have they talked to the media yet?

 

[FrontPageNews]

Have they talked to the media yet?

No where to be found. Too busy playing with their kids.

 

[ajz20]

No where to be found. Too busy playing with their kids.

Deep statistical analysis to find the next Ricardo Louis takes a ton of time.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

The fact no one has commented makes me think maybe someone is going to be shitcanned soon. Probably super wishful thinking.

 

[FiveThous]

https://youtu.be/F-cHmvMNjcI -- start around 49:30, Silva goes on a 10+ minute rant about the Browns

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

https://youtu.be/F-cHmvMNjcI -- start around 49:30, Silva goes on a 10+ minute rant about the Browns

While I agree with Evan on some, even a lot of things, a few key points.

1)If Sashi had to convince Hue to buy into their process, that should have been a warning sign. Sashi hired Hue, so he cannot use Hue as not his idea.

2)Regardless about how you feel about their drafts, the Browns have missed on elite QB prospects. This is an unassailable fact. Sashi has final say, which means he also gets all the blame.

3) The rift, infighting, leaks and subversion that has taken place over the past month is disgusting. No one deserves to keep a job there, no matter the success. The fact that the Browns are also 1-23 on the field as well just magnifies the problem 10 fold.

Evan Silva is right in one area though. The next front office is going to reap the rewards of this front office. Its why I think the job will be so attractive. Money, numerous draft picks and a decent foundation of talent.

I hope the Browns find a more analytically inclined football man this time instead of outright outsiders.

 

[Phills14]

I agree with your last point. If a change is made, this front office will be like the Chris Grant front office. Do all the necessary dirty work to tear it down, accumulate assets and when it's time to strike get a new regime in.

I wonder if we will ever find out the true story but if I had to guess it went down like this...

Hue Wants McCarron
Hue asks front office to inquire.
Front office does, comes back with the 2nd and 3rd offer but doesn't like it
Hue wants McCarron regardless
Hue sells the idea of McCarron to ownership
Ownership pushes down on Front Office to make the deal
Front office at the last minute reluctantly makes the deal

What I am questioning is did the front office sabotage the deal because they knew it was foolish or was the chaos of the last minute the cause of the botched paperwork?

 

[Matches]

At this point the failures of both sides are obvious. But I sincerely believe taking a sledgehammer to this thing is not the right move. To the point above, the Sashi-DePodesta group has actually done a good job at what they're good at: using data to make decisions, exploiting imbalances in the market, etc. Jackson I have been much less impressed with, but these players need some continuity and he needs another year.

Both sides of this need to be shored up; both need to take a hit to their egos for the betterment of the organization and themselves if they want to keep their jobs.

First, Sashi needs to be demoted (professed publicly as a reassignment) from EVP of Football Operations and replaced with a new mind with a combination of football ops experience and analytical mindset who is the only football operations person who reports to ownership. Jackson and Sashi can hate each other's guts all they want but they cannot be chirping in the Haslams' ears about it. One or both of them may actually be good at their jobs but someone besides Haslam needs to be deciding that.

Said EVP of Football Operations must be allowed to require Hue to hire an offensive coordinator for the 2018 season or be fired.

This person, with access to exactly what's been going on, should be able to tell where the missteps have taken place. Jackson gets another year of acquired talent in 2018 to prove he can actually be a head coach. Sashi, DePodesta, Berry, et al, get another year to see their vision through and see their previous draft picks progress. Without real progress on the field by the end of 2018, then by all means, swing that ax and let the heads roll.

 

[FiveThous]

My worst nightmare is that the FO gets canned and a "football mind" comes in and finds a QB. They'll instantly be better because of this and all the talent this team brought in over the last 18 months will be ignored because: FOOTBALL GUYS KNOW ALL, LDO! And then we'll continue with shitty coaching and suboptimal decision making. If they find their QB with FOOTBALL GUYS, we'll see seasons of 6-10 or 7-9 and a couple 10-6 or 11-5 seasons but it will be up and down (think ATL with Matt Ryan). Is that better compared to what we've seen as fans? Of freakin' course but it won't help progress the game of football out of the caveman mentality.

My dream scenario is they find their QB, the FO gets to stay while they agree to a buyout with Hue. They bring in a young mind that can appreciate analytics. They realize how atrocious 4th down, expected points and timeout management are in the NFL and immediately capitalize on that. The Browns then go on a Steelers/Pats type run for the next 10-15 years. I don't see this happening if they just bring in another football mind.

 

[BMAN]

My worst nightmare is that the FO gets canned and a "football mind" comes in and finds a QB. They'll instantly be better because of this and all the talent this team brought in over the last 18 months will be ignored because: FOOTBALL GUYS KNOW ALL, LDO! And then we'll continue with shitty coaching and suboptimal decision making. If they find their QB with FOOTBALL GUYS, we'll see seasons of 6-10 or 7-9 and a couple 10-6 or 11-5 seasons but it will be up and down (think ATL with Matt Ryan). Is that better compared to what we've seen as fans? Of freakin' course but it won't help progress the game of football out of the caveman mentality.

My dream scenario is they find their QB, the FO gets to stay while they agree to a buyout with Hue. They bring in a young mind that can appreciate analytics. They realize how atrocious 4th down, expected points and timeout management are in the NFL and immediately capitalize on that. The Browns then go on a Steelers/Pats type run for the next 10-15 years. I don't see this happening if they just bring in another football mind.

Explain the 4th down, expected points, and timeout management to me

 

[Soda]

I really don't care who gets credit or who does the job, as long as they have an enduring ethos & make good decisions. Typing it sounds easy, but we've seen time and time again how difficult it is for even the most credible people to maintain conviction in their ethos in Cleveland after the honeymoon season is over.