Open Discussion (Cavs + related issues)

[BimboColesHair]

Actually, it might have. Not because of what Delly could accomplish as an individual, but because the way he played sometimes affected the mindset of the entire team. If he gets out there and does his usual ass-busting, maybe some other guys get the message, pick up their intensity, and the entire team plays better.

I saw that happen more than one in prior seasons. And that's not even mentioning the way he practiced, which also affects how other guys may approach the game.

I disagree...this is a team problem right now...not them missing a bench piece. I don't think Delly does enough to change the outcome of either of the previous 2 games, which again brings me back to the only point I'm trying to make in here.

This team is sidetracked way too much right now. Have to rein things back in. Really all it is. They can go through the motions or cancel practices again when they have comfortably separated themselves from the rest of the East. Until then, they better start taking shit seriously for a bit.

 

[godfather]

Delly always gave a shit -- every minute he was on the floor. And that often became contagious, and led other guys to upping their effort. Putting him in the game often led to a burst by TT in particular.

Delly's greatest contribution was always his intangibles and heart, which are exactly what this team is missing right now.

I think Bimbo's point is, last night's game isn't the time to be pointing the finger on who we're missing.

Literally multiple times, in a row, they refused to even get back on defense. I've never seen that happen before.

There's no trade, no missing piece, that can make up for that when the other guys on floor didn't seem to care one bit.

Are we lacking pieces? Sure, I don't think anyone is saying we're not. But the last two losses had nothing to do with what we're missing.

Maybe the Bucks game a little, just that we clearly lack another athletic and big wing defender.

But the Clippers game? Nah.. We flat out didn't give a shit last night, and that's very troubling to me.

 

[godfather]

I take it probably most people watched on Fox Sports? Well, our effort was so bad that the national TNT guys brought it up multiple times throughout the game. That's a bit unusual, but that's how awful we were.

Every player on the floor should be in the dog house IMO. Totally unacceptable. You're going to have bad games, but to literally not even try to get back on defense, consecutive times, it's pretty pathetic. That shit gets you benched in high school right away. These are professionals making millions.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I think Bimbo's point is, last night's game isn't the time to be pointing the finger on who we're missing.

Literally multiple times, in a row, they refused to even get back on defense. I've never seen that happen before.

There's no trade, no missing piece, that can make up for that when the other guys on floor didn't seem to care one bit.

Are we lacking pieces? Sure, I don't think anyone is saying we're not. But the last two losses had nothing to do with what we're missing.

Maybe the Bucks game a little, just that we clearly lack another athletic and big wing defender.

But the Clippers game? Nah.. We flat out didn't give a shit last night, and that's very troubling to me.

There was an exact point from that Bucks game where you can literally see them check out mentally. They were up like 13 or 11 and didn't communicate and gave up a wide open layup to Greg Monroe I believe. Been all downhill from that moment.

Team needs a practice in the worst way right now.

 

[godfather]

There was an exact point from that Bucks game where you can literally see them check out mentally. They were up like 13 or 11 and didn't communicate and gave up a wide open layup to Greg Monroe I believe. Been all downhill from that moment.

Team needs a practice in the worst way right now.

Yep, and people want to point the blame to Tristan, lack of rim protection, but we saw this shit happen last year too. I was hoping we'd snap out of it. I don't see it as a lack of rim protection problem. We stop communicating. Guys stop hustling back. I don't care if you have Wilt Chamberlain, you're going to give up baskets when you stop doing the simple things.

Their days of going to football games should be over. They've not earned it after the last few games. They mailed in the Philly game too, but they were good enough to beat a really bad team anyway. Defensively they weren't very good in that game either. But we all gave them a pass and the benefit of the doubt given they pulled it out.

I understand the season is marathon, and some games they're going to just coast. This isn't coasting, this is literally them not even playing at times.

You do that against good, to even average teams, you will lose. Even though we're clearly better than the Bucks and even the Clippers IMO.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

There's no trade, no missing piece, that can make up for that when the other guys on floor didn't seem to care one bit....

...Are we lacking pieces? Sure, I don't think anyone is saying we're not. But the last two losses had nothing to do with what we're missing....

But the Clippers game? Nah.. We flat out didn't give a shit last night, and that's very troubling to me.

I don't see those losses as a result of missing pieces either. At least, not in the sense of needing a rim protector" or "wing capable of defending multiple positions". I see it being a result of a team lack of effort/focus/leadership. And I've made my argument about how I think Delly contributes to that on a team-wide basis, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I don't see those losses as a result of missing pieces either. At least, not in the sense of needing a rim protector" or "wing capable of defending multiple positions". I see it being a result of a team lack of effort/focus/leadership. And I've made my argument about how I think Delly contributes to that on a team-wide basis, so I'll just leave it at that.

I mean...we went through this same shit last year at times...with Delly on the team...this team has, is, and will always follow the lead of LeBron, no one else.

But this might be the worst level its gotten to.

Never a good thing when you hear a coach hasn't been feeling good about practices, coupled in with canceled practices and shootarounds to go to football games...

 

[godfather]

I don't see those losses as a result of missing pieces either. At least, not in the sense of needing a rim protector" or "wing capable of defending multiple positions". I see it being a result of a team lack of effort/focus/leadership. And I've made my argument about how I think Delly contributes to that on a team-wide basis, so I'll just leave it at that.

I don't deny we aren't missing pieces. Our bench is ass. Letting Delly go, was and is terrible. Do we need a rim protector? Sure. We need a backup point guard. We last but badly, more than anything, need another wing player the most.

But the last few games show the team has checked out mentally. And they've lost because of that.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I don't deny we aren't missing pieces. Our bench is ass. Letting Delly go, was and is terrible. Do we need a rim protector? Sure. We need a backup point guard. We last but badly, more than anything, need another wing player the most.

But the last few games show the team has checked out mentally. And they've lost because of that.

I get that point. I really, really do. And I'm not saying that we are missing Delly because he's the missing backup PG we need. I'm saying that we miss him for his infectious hustle, effort, leadership, and the fact that he doesn't check out mentally.

If Lue is looking for someone to stick in the game to change the tempo, bring intensity, hustle, etc. as an example to the other guys, or to crash into some bodies at practice, who can he turn to now?

That's my point.

 

[Jon]

What about the offense, though? These guys love to play offense, and sometimes their defensive intensity will follow their offensive success.

Why do you guys think they are struggling to create the wide open shots we saw before Milwaukee when we were lighting up the league with 3's?

 

[gourimoko]

I mean...we went through this same shit last year at times...with Delly on the team...this team has, is, and will always follow the lead of LeBron, no one else.

But this might be the worst level its gotten to.

Never a good thing when you hear a coach hasn't been feeling good about practices, coupled in with canceled practices and shootarounds to go to football games...

The team literally threw games last year, like.. purposely lost to get a coach fired. I wouldn't say this is the worst level its gotten to... They're just disjointed right now; and yes, I think you're right about the cause. This team has one leader, it's LeBron James... period.. If he's having a bad night, and by bad night I don't mean stats, but if he's disinterested in just talking and leading and participating, then we get manhandled.

All the Cavs need, IMHO, is for James to just be James.. Right now, he's in ultra chill-mode, and the team is suffering as a result.

 

[MRMsix6]

The team literally threw games last year, like.. purposely lost to get a coach fired. I wouldn't say this is the worst level its gotten to... They're just disjointed right now; and yes, I think you're right about the cause. This team has one leader, it's LeBron James... period.. If he's having a bad night, and by bad night I don't mean stats, but if he's disinterested in just talking and leading and participating, then we get manhandled.

All the Cavs need, IMHO, is for James to just be James.. Right now, he's in ultra chill-mode, and the team is suffering as a result.

Hey, at least he mustered up the juice for that windmill on national TV.

For real though, his ball-handling has been otherwordly bad recently. Every time he brings it up the court I'm begging for Kyrie to take the ball from him.

 

[BimboColesHair]

The team literally threw games last year, like.. purposely lost to get a coach fired. I wouldn't say this is the worst level its gotten to... They're just disjointed right now; and yes, I think you're right about the cause. This team has one leader, it's LeBron James... period.. If he's having a bad night, and by bad night I don't mean stats, but if he's disinterested in just talking and leading and participating, then we get manhandled.

All the Cavs need, IMHO, is for James to just be James.. Right now, he's in ultra chill-mode, and the team is suffering as a result.

The "worst level its gotten to" was more about off the court distractions than how they/LeBron are playing. Felt like they've been flirting with crossing the line of doing too much and showing too much "support" for other in-state teams, and I think they crossed that line with the OSU/UM game.

But yeah, this isn't even close to the "worst level" as far on court production goes that we have seen...

And they were in chill mode the first 15 games and were killing teams while clearly dicking around more than they would in a must win situation, but now they are playing sloppy while in chill mode, which is an ugly combination. Think that stems from poor practices/canceling practices.

 

[gourimoko]

Hey, at least he mustered up the juice for that windmill on national TV.

For real though, his ball-handling has been otherwordly bad recently. Every time he brings it up the court I'm begging for Kyrie to take the ball from him.

Yea, I felt like last night was one of the nights that could be used as an example for why Kyrie Irving really shouldn't be playing what amounts to an off guard role in our offense. Sure, it can work GREAT when James is fully committed, but, Irving is, contrary to popular belief, a nominal point guard. As in, he's about league average historically (slightly above), with respect to creating for his teammates and generating assists; and that ranking is slightly higher when considering giving up turnovers.

I'm not sure I agree with Lue on this idea that we want Irving to focus on attacking the basket... I feel like, we're making ourselves far too one-dimensional.

If we were to pickup another ball-handling wing, like a Tyreke Evans on a buyout or something similar, then I could see Irving really just sticking with his ~4.5 APG, or even less.. But as it stands now, I would prefer to see more of the offense move through Irving with some set plays being run - and I do not mean without James on the floor.

 

[Jscc]

The problem I have with saying the team's not trying is it doesn't explain some of the frustration. Both LeBron and Kyrie got techs last night. Kyrie got a flagrant. People that don't care about the game don't get those. Jason Lloyd [or Dave McMenamin, can't remember] said there was another incident where Kyrie and TT were having a heated argument about defense and Birdman had to step in between them. Why get so worked up if you don't care?