Open Discussion (Cavs + related issues)

[buzzdog]

Durant's rebounding also makes it tougher for TT to dominate on the boards.

Thats where that move really cost us. I do like the fact we can now have Love/LeBron/Crowder as your front court against them.

Durant's rebounding made it tougher for TT?

Hell, forget about Durant, Curry was out rebounding his Kardashian ass.

 

[raiders91sc]

all you worried about Melo's defense. He is going to be guarding the 4 spot. We would love teams trying to post him up. That is the shot you want teams taking every time. By analytics u have to shoot 60 percent for that shot to be affective. Let them shoot that shot all day.

 

[FrontPageNews]

I would give up Cedi for Melo in a heartbeat. Odds are Cedi will barely avg 10 pts a game in his career. What about this lineup:

IT/Rose
JR/Kover
Lebron/Crowder
Melo/Green
Cousins/Frey

Cedi may not score but he’s a high energy defensive player and we have him for the long term. Melo may be one and done. Or even worse he may accept his PO.

 

[Lyuokdea]

What about trading Zizic rather than Cedi?

Shumpert/Frye/RJ/Felder for Anthony
Zizic for a protected 2nd

You need to do it in two trades to get around the restrictions on Zizic.

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

What about trading Zizic rather than Cedi?

Shumpert/Frye/RJ/Felder for Anthony
Zizic for a protected 2nd

You need to do it in two trades to get around the restrictions on Zizic.

Rather trade Cedi tbh.

If Cedi had a consistent 3pt shot, then no.. but he doesn't. I have more faith in Zizic than I do in Cedi. Zizic plays a position that we are weak at and allows us to trade TT for the right deal when the time is right.

If Zizic pans out, we become significantly stronger, compared to Cedi who's ceiling I view as a role player 3 & D with a similar impact of say, Danny Green at his peak.

It's far harder to predict the ceiling of big man, especially euros.. for all we know he could turn into a Marc Gasol type player and I don't wanna give that up, not yet.

 

[cavsfever]

Zizic is a way more important player for us than Cedi. We BADLY need a big body in the middle to plug up our defense. Zizic is both big and athletic and we should be developing him -- the question is whether he is quick and smart enough to handle switches in the modern NBA but you've got to try him out.

Now that we have Jae Crowder, Cedi is nice, but not necessary.

Only problem is I have no faith in our coaching staff to develop a young player of any kind...we'll see I guess.

 

[Raja khan]

All you Cedi lovers are going to be really disappointed when you see all those DNP's next to his name on the stat sheet

 

[CommD]

First, love the enthusiasm.

But three of the four guys you mentioned have yet to show they can play a meaningful positive Conference Finals or NBA Finals minute. Two of the four have played about 20-30 games in the NBA total.

And there is no chance you get trade TT and just filler for Melo AND a meaningful draft pick from NYK

The Melo package will be built around Frye and Shump with some combo Cedi or Zizic and our own 2018 1st as the asset portion of what the Knicks get. If there is still a need for more salary match to satisfy the trade rules, guys like RJ/Kay/Edy could be involved.

You may be right, but looking at the trade from the CLE perspective, dumping TT's contract on NY in a Melo trade is the best case scenario IMO. I'd rather keep the younger, cheaper developmental assets and move the ceiling-reached, overpaid asset.

Easier to make the salary-match by throwing in Fry and Cav's 2018 first if NY wants a future oriented asset in the deal. I don't actually need a draft pick back from them, but would appreciate a throw-in 2nd rounder.

Knicks and MSG might even appreciate the Kardasian factor. I, for one, do not in relation to the Cavs going forward. She'll look great in the front row next to Spike!

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

Zizic is a way more important player for us than Cedi. We BADLY need a big body in the middle to plug up our defense. Zizic is both big and athletic and we should be developing him -- the question is whether he is quick and smart enough to handle switches in the modern NBA but you've got to try him out.

Now that we have Jae Crowder, Cedi is nice, but not necessary.

Only problem is I have no faith in our coaching staff to develop a young player of any kind...we'll see I guess.

Yeah, expecting our coaching staff to even play our young guys, let alone develop is wishful thinking. If I were a fan of other team I would be far more pressed to not trade our only means of improving out team organically.
Having an asset such as young prospects can totally change the outlook of a team if they pan out..but I guess this doesn't apply to us because our europeans are not going to see much daylight.

So sure, trade them all

 

[Lyuokdea]

You may be right, but looking at the trade from the CLE perspective, dumping TT's contract on NY in a Melo trade is the best case scenario IMO. I'd rather keep the younger, cheaper developmental assets and move the ceiling-reached, overpaid asset.

Easier to make the salary-match by throwing in Fry and Cav's 2018 first if NY wants a future oriented asset in the deal. I don't actually need a draft pick back from them, but would appreciate a throw-in 2nd rounder.

Knicks and MSG might even appreciate the Kardasian factor. I, for one, do not in relation to the Cavs going forward. She'll look great in the front row next to Spike!

I'm not necessarily opposed - but if we trade TT I want O'Quinn back. He fits into the Dunleavy TPE, and would give us a usable vet big against teams where we can't use Love.

 

[cavsfever]

There are a lot of questions about Zizic but one thing that nobody questions is his ability to rebound and all-out hustle. So it seems like at least someday he could give us a lot of the things TT does. He's not anywhere near as good a perimeter defender at this point, but it's not like TT's perimeter defense gave us that much in the Finals, so...

Still, TT was very valuable to us this year in the EC playoffs before reaching the Finals...people don't give him credit for that. The EC playoffs will be tougher this year. TT is still a good fit to the team, even if overpaid.

 

[cavsfever]

I'm not necessarily opposed - but if we trade TT I want O'Quinn back. He fits into the Dunleavy TPE, and would give us a usable vet big against teams where we can't use Love.

yeah, with Love, Melo (who may be best at PF now), Zizic, and O'Quinn we would be reasonably set in the frontcourt even losing TT.

Not sure that NYK would want to saddle themselves with TT's contract in a rebuilding situation though. They'd probably prefer Cedi and to keep O'Quinn

 

[Sir'Dom Pointer]

There are a lot of questions about Zizic but one thing that nobody questions is his ability to rebound and all-out hustle. So it seems like at least someday he could give us a lot of the things TT does. He's not anywhere near as good a perimeter defender at this point, but it's not like TT's perimeter defense gave us that much in the Finals, so...

Still, TT was very valuable to us this year in the EC playoffs before reaching the Finals...people don't give him credit for that. The EC playoffs will be tougher this year. TT is still a good fit to the team, even if overpaid.

Yeah, TT's ability to guard the perimeter is mostly a fiction and is being wrongfully recinforced by his fairly good ability to stay with the player that he is switched on to, so when we judge his ability to guard the perimeter we usually don't hold it against him when he gets scored on, because if he stayed with his man then he probably did everything he could.

While TT can stay with his man better than most centers, he still lacks the typical size for a center, whether his man takes him to the rim or attempts a shot over him on the perimeter, his inability to aggresively contest the shot is a big negative. This, coupled with the fact that his timing and anticipation are almost always off makes it easy for the perimeter players today to score on him.. players are too good of a shooters nowadays.

Zizic otoh, atleast to me projects to be a a better peimeter defender.. he may not move his feet as quick laterally, but his size and his straight line speed allows him to contest better on the perimeter and at the same time recover quicker to challenge at the rim.

What's the point in staying with your man if you are not going to challenge at the rim effectively? I have seen it too many times with TT.

 

[shoes22]

Am I really the only one who sees a LeBron-Melo-Love frontcourt clashing?

 

[cavsfever]

Yeah, TT's ability to guard the perimeter is mostly a fiction and is being wrongfully recinforced by his fairly good ability to stay with the player that he is switched on to, so when we judge his ability to guard the perimeter we usually don't hold it against him when he gets scored on, because if he stayed with his man then he probably did everything he could.

While TT can stay with his man better than most centers, he still lacks the typical size for a center, whether his man takes him to the rim or attempts a shot over him on the perimeter, his inability to aggresively contest the shot is a big negative. This, coupled with the fact that his timing and anticipation are almost always off makes it easy for the perimeter players today to score on him.. players are too good of a shooters nowadays.

Zizic otoh, atleast to me projects to be a a better peimeter defender.. he may not move his feet as quick laterally, but his size and his straight line speed allows him to contest better on the perimeter and at the same time recover quicker to challenge at the rim.

What's the point in staying with your man if you are not going to challenge at the rim effectively? I have seen it too many times with TT.

Interesting take that illuminates a lot I have seen with TT over the years...I am one of those people who instinctively gave him a lot of credit for moving his feet well enough to stay with the player he is on, which is the most visible part of defense, but you're absolutely right that he doesn't have the size or timing to actually contest the shot well.

Depending on what you think of what TT brings and what Zizic's potential is, a possible plus to trading him is that it would almost force the coaching staff to develop Zizic and give him minutes.