Open Discussion (Cavs + related issues)

[FrontPageNews]

Crowder is a better and younger version of Tucker.

And we coulda had both..

You need more than one defender to beat them.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Griffin's trade for Korver is the most Griffin move of all time. I remember how assassinated I got at this forum suggesting that Thabo or Tucker would have been the far smarter play with a GSW matchup looming. I was assured that Korver's "dead-eye" shooting would terrify the Warriors and make us impossible to guard

Good guy and great teammate, but sending out a 1st-rounder for another shooter was and remains a total WTF move. I forget that Korver is even on the team half the time. I'd move him in the right deal.

Really wish we could have gotten Moute this summer. Our only hope is Green stepping up his defensive game and not being enough of a catastrophe on the offensive end to where he can remain on the floor.

 

[TitleTown]

Griffin's trade for Korver is the most Griffin move of all time. I remember how assassinated I got at this forum suggesting that Thabo or Tucker would have been the far smarter play with a GSW matchup looming. I was assured that Korver's "dead-eye" shooting would terrify the Warriors and make us impossible to guard

Good guy and great teammate, but sending out a 1st-rounder for another shooter was and remains a total WTF move. I forget that Korver is even on the team half the time. I'd move him in the right deal.

Really wish we could have gotten Moute this summer. Our only hope is Green stepping up his defensive game and not being enough of a catastrophe on the offensive end to where he can remain on the floor.

History hasn't proven you right.

Lue not using Korver correctly is neither Griffin nor Korver's fault.

Korver's spacing and shooting remains a HUGE asset. Especially after the Kyrie trade.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

History hasn't proven you right.

Lue not using Korver correctly is neither Griffin nor Korver's fault.

Korver's spacing and shooting remains a HUGE asset. Especially after the Kyrie trade.

An additional wing defender that WASN'T the corpse of Richard Jefferson might have made all the difference that series, as opposed to the unremarkable and defensive liability that was Kyle Korver.

 

[FrontPageNews]

History hasn't proven you right.

Lue not using Korver correctly is neither Griffin nor Korver's fault.

Korver's spacing and shooting remains a HUGE asset. Especially after the Kyrie trade.

Wait, history hasn’t proven that Korver was bad against the warriors?

 

[Jordan]

Griffin's trade for Korver is the most Griffin move of all time. I remember how assassinated I got at this forum suggesting that Thabo or Tucker would have been the far smarter play with a GSW matchup looming. I was assured that Korver's "dead-eye" shooting would terrify the Warriors and make us impossible to guard

Good guy and great teammate, but sending out a 1st-rounder for another shooter was and remains a total WTF move. I forget that Korver is even on the team half the time. I'd move him in the right deal.

Really wish we could have gotten Moute this summer. Our only hope is Green stepping up his defensive game and not being enough of a catastrophe on the offensive end to where he can remain on the floor.

I don't think, in a vacuum, Korver was a bad addition. I was a huge fan of it. The problem was that we had no other moves in our arsenal, and we needed another wing defender. We had needed one all year. Also, it's not like guys like PJ Tucker et. al are bad offensive players.

Also, yeah, I still would take Prince Luc. The dude is an amazing defender and we could have afforded his salary and guaranteed playing time.

 

[Dreaded Cav]

So i'm wondering how much longer we continue to believe that small ball is the way to beat the GSW? Didn't Billy Donovan already show everyone that size was the way to go when they were pummeling those small ball units on the way to a 3-1 lead? (ultimately blown of course by coward & WB). S.A.'s big unit was crushing the dubs last year in game 1 until the Kawai injury. Granted I think GS wins that series regardless due to front court age.

I personally still believe we win the 2015 finals if Blatt doesn't suddenly become obsessed with matching up small because of that game 4 second half. In reality, the team was completely gassed and was run off the court because of simple fatigue and not GS going small. So he basically benches a previously effective Mozgov, shortening the exhausted short rotation even further and essentially hands the Warriors the title. If not for Blatt's panic, I still think we win that series even without Kyrie & Love. (I do think Blatt is worlds better than Lue though, he just wasn't LeBron, NBA ready)

If I am the coach I am absolutely doing everything I can to groom Zizic into becoming the starting center next to Love by hopefully mid-season. Doubt he sees more than a few garbage time minutes though. Guarantee as soon as Love was announced as the starting 5, GSW were doubled over laughing their asses off. They have three of the greatest shooters in the history of the league and people are still thinking the way to beat them is to try and match up against their strength rather than to combat their obvious size disadvantage... ??? Beat their ass in the paint and on the glass and make them have to hit a high percentage of those threes against Bron, Crowder, ect. Oh well, Steph will likely out rebound us again with our current lineup.

BTW, I also think Cousins/Love would be perfect against GSW, but I absolutely do not give up the Nets pick without the assurance of a multi-year deal.

 

[Cavatt]

So i'm wondering how much longer we continue to believe that small ball is the way to beat the GSW? Didn't Billy Donovan already show everyone that size was the way to go when they were pummeling those small ball units on the way to a 3-1 lead? (ultimately blown of course by coward & WB). S.A.'s big unit was crushing the dubs last year in game 1 until the Kawai injury. Granted I think GS wins that series regardless due to front court age.

I personally still believe we win the 2015 finals if Blatt doesn't suddenly become obsessed with matching up small because of that game 4 second half. In reality, the team was completely gassed and was run off the court because of simple fatigue and not GS going small. So he basically benches a previously effective Mozgov, shortening the exhausted short rotation even further and essentially hands the Warriors the title. If not for Blatt's panic, I still think we win that series even without Kyrie & Love. (I do think Blatt is worlds better than Lue though, he just wasn't LeBron, NBA ready)

If I am the coach I am absolutely doing everything I can to groom Zizic into becoming the starting center next to Love by hopefully mid-season. Doubt he sees more than a few garbage time minutes though. Guarantee as soon as Love was announced as the starting 5, GSW were doubled over laughing their asses off. They have three of the greatest shooters in the history of the league and people are still thinking the way to beat them is to try and match up against their strength rather than to combat their obvious size disadvantage... ??? Beat their ass in the paint and on the glass and make them have to hit a high percentage of those threes against Bron, Crowder, ect. Oh well, Steph will likely out rebound us again with our current lineup.

BTW, I also think Cousins/Love would be perfect against GSW, but I absolutely do not give up the Nets pick without the assurance of a multi-year deal.

There is something to what you say. Memphis is the other team that gives them trouble, but Memphis could never score consistently. The bucks too. Length and strength.

 

[cavsfever]

DeMarcus Cousins changes the game against GS in a way that loading up on worse versions of their small ball players does not.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

So i'm wondering how much longer we continue to believe that small ball is the way to beat the GSW? Didn't Billy Donovan already show everyone that size was the way to go when they were pummeling those small ball units on the way to a 3-1 lead? (ultimately blown of course by coward & WB). S.A.'s big unit was crushing the dubs last year in game 1 until the Kawai injury. Granted I think GS wins that series regardless due to front court age.

I personally still believe we win the 2015 finals if Blatt doesn't suddenly become obsessed with matching up small because of that game 4 second half. In reality, the team was completely gassed and was run off the court because of simple fatigue and not GS going small. So he basically benches a previously effective Mozgov, shortening the exhausted short rotation even further and essentially hands the Warriors the title. If not for Blatt's panic, I still think we win that series even without Kyrie & Love. (I do think Blatt is worlds better than Lue though, he just wasn't LeBron, NBA ready)

If I am the coach I am absolutely doing everything I can to groom Zizic into becoming the starting center next to Love by hopefully mid-season. Doubt he sees more than a few garbage time minutes though. Guarantee as soon as Love was announced as the starting 5, GSW were doubled over laughing their asses off. They have three of the greatest shooters in the history of the league and people are still thinking the way to beat them is to try and match up against their strength rather than to combat their obvious size disadvantage... ??? Beat their ass in the paint and on the glass and make them have to hit a high percentage of those threes against Bron, Crowder, ect. Oh well, Steph will likely out rebound us again with our current lineup.

BTW, I also think Cousins/Love would be perfect against GSW, but I absolutely do not give up the Nets pick without the assurance of a multi-year deal.

I get your point, but you're referencing Billy Donovan's strategy, which started with: Have Kevin Durant.

Now, the best player on the team that had the Warriors on the ropes, is on the Warriors.

Going big just won't cut it anymore. GS will score too much and too easily against a traditional 4/5 when they're running a KD/Draymond frontcourt for 30mins a night and in crunch time. And the easy twos you get won't make up for it because 3 > 2

 

[chuck0609]

Griffin's trade for Korver is the most Griffin move of all time. I remember how assassinated I got at this forum suggesting that Thabo or Tucker would have been the far smarter play with a GSW matchup looming. I was assured that Korver's "dead-eye" shooting would terrify the Warriors and make us impossible to guard

Good guy and great teammate, but sending out a 1st-rounder for another shooter was and remains a total WTF move. I forget that Korver is even on the team half the time. I'd move him in the right deal.

Really wish we could have gotten Moute this summer. Our only hope is Green stepping up his defensive game and not being enough of a catastrophe on the offensive end to where he can remain on the floor.

Yeah, but at the time kyrie wasn't 100%, JR was hurt and shumpert was too I believe. They literally had no guards.
LBJ was taxed and needed reinforcements.
Korver was very good for the Cavs last year- if he made the three in game three his narrative would be different. Yeah he missed it, but I wouldn't hate him getting that look again. Neither would Lebron.

 

[TitleTown]

Wait, history hasn’t proven that Korver was bad against the warriors?

No, it hasn't.

 

[TitleTown]

An additional wing defender that WASN'T the corpse of Richard Jefferson might have made all the difference that series, as opposed to the unremarkable and defensive liability that was Kyle Korver.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that Korver was a bad addition, or that the players you wanted were even available.

It's not an either/or proposition.

 

[Dreaded Cav]

I get your point, but you're referencing Billy Donovan's strategy, which started with: Have Kevin Durant.

Now, the best player on the team that had the Warriors on the ropes, is on the Warriors.

Going big just won't cut it anymore. GS will score too much and too easily against a traditional 4/5 when they're running a KD/Draymond frontcourt for 30mins a night and in crunch time. And the easy twos you get won't make up for it because 3 > 2

We have a better version of Durant though named Lebron James. I think going big would absolutely work with mobile bigs that can run. Zizic is only one possibility, but unfortunately we never even saw him get run with the starters in the preseason so who knows if he could be the guy. Of course, it doesn't matter anyway because there's no way Lue gives it a chance.

Strange thing to me about that is Lue was the one who stated after game 1 "They're the best i've ever seen" (yeah thanks coach for basically writing us off after one game, now lets go run some more track meets with them and play exactly their style of game) Hey maybe attacking weaknesses might be a better way to go. Like Barkley, I also think they are still just a jump shooting team and certainly beatable, but it's absolutely impossible if we're hell bent on playing their game...

Yes 3 is more than 2, but defending with length makes those threes tougher when they're not scoring so easily inside and more importantly size on the inside prevents them from getting all those offensive rebounds. I love Kevin Love, but if he is our only big they will beat us on the boards again and again and if the GSW are getting second shots... we have absolutely no chance = series over.

Personally I think they actually score a whole lot easier against these small units than they would against size with some semblance of rim protection.

 

[czvo]

I don't think, in a vacuum, Korver was a bad addition. I was a huge fan of it. The problem was that we had no other moves in our arsenal, and we needed another wing defender. We had needed one all year. Also, it's not like guys like PJ Tucker et. al are bad offensive players.

Also, yeah, I still would take Prince Luc. The dude is an amazing defender and we could have afforded his salary and guaranteed playing time.

Why do people keep acting like Luc going to Houston means the Cavs didn't try to get him? I'm getting sick of the complaining about not getting certain guys. Luc went to one of the three or four title contenders, is getting minutes, and is playing with a former teammate in CP3.