Pluto: Childress, WCO, and the draft

[MoFlo]

Yeah, just not championships.

Great teams with good quarterbacks are the teams which will look back on their "run" in 10-15 years saying that if they would have had an above average QB they could have done more.

Just go get a damn QB.

I agree, if H & H think there's a franchise QB available at that spot. If they don't, then we shouldn't take one there, period.

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

I just don't get the reasoning of waiting next year to find our QB. Either you draft RG3 or you sign Flynn imo. Not saying those two guys are the Brown's saviors, but we are wasting our time the longer we stick with Colt. Thats fine if you want to build up the defense. But that doesn't mean we have to sell the QB position short. Why should we go for a QB that is just good enough? The two quarterbacks that played in the Super Bowl were elite. Same thing last season with the Packers/Steelers and the year before that with Manning/Brees.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Not all Browns fans, but many on this board seem to underrate the idea of having an elite QB. They would rather talk about fullbacks and o-linemen.

Show me where any poster suggested a fullback or offensive lineman 4th overall.

You are crossing the two subjects into one, which is a surprising mistake. The subject of the discussions switched briefly to the competence of Holmgren and Heckert in evaluating talent in general. That discussion had little to do with the regime valuing other position players over a quarterback.

Remember, the subject of this thread is a reaction to Pluto's article, in which Claiborne is adentified as a talented player that the GM likes at the #4 spot. This might be a possible contingency if RGIII is unavailable to the Browns in their draft slot. This might just be Pluto's opinion.

I personally believe that nobody in the media has the slightest clue what Heckert has planned for the first round, and they are all playing pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey wearing blindfolds.

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

Show me where any poster suggested a fullback or offensive lineman 4th overall.

You are crossing the two subjects into one, which is a surprising mistake. The subject of the discussions switched briefly to the competence of Holmgren and Heckert in evaluating talent in general. That discussion had little to do with the regime valuing other position players over a quarterback.

Remember, the subject of this thread is a reaction to Pluto's article, in which Claiborne is adentified as a talented player that the GM likes at the #4 spot. This might be a possible contingency if RGIII is unavailable to the Browns in their draft slot. This might just be Pluto's opinion.

I personally believe that nobody in the media has the slightest clue what Heckert has planned for the first round, and they are all playing pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey wearing blindfolds.

Sorry for going OT, Keys. For the record, I actually support the current regime. I just felt the QB position was getting undervalued in this thread.

 

[BooyaCS]

Show me where any poster suggested a fullback or offensive lineman 4th overall.

You are crossing the two subjects into one, which is a surprising mistake. The subject of the discussions switched briefly to the competence of Holmgren and Heckert in evaluating talent in general. That discussion had little to do with the regime valuing other position players over a quarterback.

Remember, the subject of this thread is a reaction to Pluto's article, in which Claiborne is adentified as a talented player that the GM likes at the #4 spot. This might be a possible contingency if RGIII is unavailable to the Browns in their draft slot. This might just be Pluto's opinion.

I personally believe that nobody in the media has the slightest clue what Heckert has planned for the first round, and they are all playing pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey wearing blindfolds.

I wouldn't go by what the analysts say at this point. I would go by Kiper or Mayock or McShay personally right now.

The problem with going defense at 4 is you must address the offense. 5th in points allowed 10th in total yards 2nd in pass defense. Defense isn't the issue.

I believe if we get a Competant QB, a pretty good WR with speed and a RB we should be a playoff team. 2 of these can be addressed via the draft (QB, RB) with WR going after Meachem should give us plenty of weapons.

at 4 Take the QB if he is there. Otherwise find a way to get Foles, Osweiler and a vet via FA.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I wouldn't go by what the analysts say at this point. I would go by Kiper or Mayock or McShay personally right now.

The problem with going defense at 4 is you must address the offense. 5th in points allowed 10th in total yards 2nd in pass defense. Defense isn't the issue.

I believe if we get a Competant QB, a pretty good WR with speed and a RB we should be a playoff team. 2 of these can be addressed via the draft (QB, RB) with WR going after Meachem should give us plenty of weapons.

at 4 Take the QB if he is there. Otherwise find a way to get Foles, Osweiler and a vet via FA.

Replace RB with a right tackle and we would have pretty much the same wish list, however one thing we have seen from Heckert is a purposeful first three rounds.

He identifies the players he wants, regardless of where they might be in mock drafts, and trades around to aggressively pursue those players. He picked Ward, Hardesty, and Luavao earlier than most prognosticators had them penciled in. He traded down to grab a nose tackle and defensive end "too early" last year. Of course, aside from Hardesty, all of those picks were seen as solid moves a season later.

That is why I say that most journalists have no idea what Heckert has in store for Browns fans.

 

[MoFlo]

I wouldn't go by what the analysts say at this point. I would go by Kiper or Mayock or McShay personally right now.

The problem with going defense at 4 is you must address the offense. 5th in points allowed 10th in total yards 2nd in pass defense. Defense isn't the issue.

I believe if we get a Competant QB, a pretty good WR with speed and a RB we should be a playoff team. 2 of these can be addressed via the draft (QB, RB) with WR going after Meachem should give us plenty of weapons.

at 4 Take the QB if he is there. Otherwise find a way to get Foles, Osweiler and a vet via FA.

I agree offense over defense, but let's not pretend the defense is ok.

Haden is by himself as far as CB's go, and he even struggled big time in the division this past season. Gocong & Jackson had good seasons, but Fujita is aging. We have no pass rusher besides Sheard.

Like I said, I agree we need to address the offense first, but I wouldn't exactly be horrified if they decided to go D either.

 

[ClevelandR0cks]

I think we need to find a way to come away with either RGIII or Luck in this draft. Adding one of those guys to the offense alone would make a huge difference. If we pick up an OT and or a WR to compliment and I think we have a chance at the playoffs. Worked for Cincinnati...

 

[MoFlo]

I think we need to find a way to come away with either RGIII or Luck in this draft. Adding one of those guys to the offense alone would make a huge difference. If we pick up an OT and or a WR to compliment and I think we have a chance at the playoffs. Worked for Cincinnati...

You may think RGIII is a franchise guy, but if H & H don't think he is, then there's no reason for us to pick him.

 

[DaNewCavs]

I don't know who they'll pick. All I know is that whomever they pick, at least 50% of the board will be extremely disappointed.

 

[bigjmac0815]

If all are available this is who i want in order and why

1) RG3-Franchise QB of future, fast can strech the field and has a cannon
2) Claiborne-solidifies our defense and would make our secondary one of the best in league
3) Blackmon-if we decide to go with McCoy for 1 more year, go get 2nd best WR prospect since Calvin Johnson
4) Richardson- would like to see duo of Hillis (if re-signed) and Trent....Power and Speed. Understand RBs this high have failed, believe he's the exception

 

[BooyaCS]

If all are available this is who i want in order and why

1) RG3-Franchise QB of future, fast can strech the field and has a cannon
2) Claiborne-solidifies our defense and would make our secondary one of the best in league
3) Blackmon-if we decide to go with McCoy for 1 more year, go get 2nd best WR prospect since Calvin Johnson
4) Richardson- would like to see duo of Hillis (if re-signed) and Trent....Power and Speed. Understand RBs this high have failed, believe he's the exception

That was AJ Green last year. Blackmon is nowhere near as good of a prospect as Green or Jones.

 

[AZ_]

That was AJ Green last year. Blackmon is nowhere near as good of a prospect as Green or Jones.

As a prospect, I'd say he's more Michael Crabtree than AJ Green/Jones or Calvin Johnson.

Blackmon is nothing like CJ or Green, but in fairness almost nobody is.

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

I will never understand how some people can be so ignorant to the importance of a good QB. Look at all the teams that went under .500 this year.

Rams - Bradford
Vikes - Mcnabb/Ponder
Colts - Painter
Bucs - Freeman
Browns - McCoy
Skins - Grossman
Jags - Gabbert
Phins - Moore
Panthers - Newton
Bills - Fitzpatrick
Seahawks - Jackson
Cheifs - Palko/Orton

What do almost all of those teams (outside Carolina) have in common? Shitty QB's and/or young QB's who aren't ready yet. Do you think it is a coincidence that all of the worst teams in the NFL just so happen to have bad QB play?


Then look at all of the playoff teams.

Pack, Pats, Saints, 49ers, Ravens, Steelers, Falcons, Lions, Texans, Bengals, Giants, Broncos

Pack, Pats, Saints, Lions, and Giants all had GREAT QB play.

Steelers and Falcons had very good QB play (Texans as well until Schaub went down). Bengals and Ravens had solid QB play. Broncos had terrible QB play and they did make the playoffs, but they were only 8-8.


The pattern here is pretty obvious. If you have a good/great QB, you are most likely going to be a contending team every year. I just don't get people sometimes.

 

[DaNewCavs]

Rams - Bradford - 1st rounder
Vikes - Mcnabb/Ponder - 1st rounder
Colts - Painter
Bucs - Freeman - 1st rounder
Browns - McCoy
Skins - Grossman - 1st rounder
Jags - Gabbert - 1st rounder
Phins - Moore
Panthers - Newton - 1st rounder
Bills - Fitzpatrick
Seahawks - Jackson
Cheifs - Palko/Orton

MO...

I don't get your argument. 50% of the QB's mentioned above were 1st round draft picks. So your solution is to draft a QB in the 1st round???? As much as I like RGIII, drafting him or any QB in the first round doesn't guarantee anything. It's basically a 50/50 coin flip as to whether he'll be successful. Yes, this is better odds then picking a QB in later rounds, but we will be investing multiple years in developing RGIII, so if he doesn't pan out we've wasted 3 to 4 years of developing a QB. Look at the Jets with Sanchez. He sucks, yet they still keep running him out there because of the investment they put into him. St. Louis has so much invested in Bradford, and if he sucks next year, then what? At least with McCoy, since we only used a 3rd rounder on him, it's OK to replace him after one year with better alternatives.

Hopefully RGIII will be on the right side of the coin and will make this argument moot.