Poll: 2014-15 MVP Race

[Man Called X]

What do I even say to this? I thought Harden was shooting a lot of free throws because he's an elite penetrator that sells contact while attacking the rim 10+ times a game, but apparently Harden's been blowing Joey Crawford before every game.

It's not selling contact when you aren't even attempting to make a shot. It's probably a fucking Morey-ball revelation to be honest with you. But I'm convinced the plays aren't drawn up to make a shot, but solely for Harden to get a foul call. There will come a day soon when he's got 40 points on 6 shots but 30 attempts at the line.

 

[Urban]

Harden
PPG from the field: 18.4
PPG from the line: 8.7
Total PPG: 27.1

LeBron
PPG from the field: 20.1
PPG from the line: 5.7
Total PPG: 25.8

Westbrook
PPG from the field: 19.5
PPG from the line: 8.1
Total PPG: 27.6

I mean Harden definitely shies towards contact a lot and his game isn't the prettiest, but take a look at the top 3 scorers in the NBA. All of them play a style that allow them to get many attempts at the line every game (LeBron-8, Russ-9.7, Harden-10). If LeBron were a better FT shooter, the three of them would have near identical percentages of points coming the field vs. the line.

Harden mainly gets his free throws off pump fakes or jumping into contact, whereas LeBron gets them by driving through the lane like a freight train- so I definitely see the differences. However, Harden would still be the best SG in the league if the refs were to clamp down on the fouls he draws.

 

[CosmoKramer]

It's not selling contact when you aren't even attempting to make a shot. It's probably a fucking Morey-ball revelation to be honest with you. But I'm convinced the plays aren't drawn up to make a shot, but solely for Harden to get a foul call. There will come a day soon when he's got 40 points on 6 shots but 30 attempts at the line.

Harden has no problem finishing inside if he's not fouled, to say he's not even attempting to shoot is just hyperbole at its best.

Well, it would be, if you didn't then accuse McHale of drawing up plays solely to get Harden to the line. Just ridiculous. How would that even sound? Fuck trying to get an open look, we're sending James up the gut! Between all that and Harden blowing the refs, I'm starting to see some are going to be outraged if Harden wins the MVP this year.

 

[Man Called X]

Harden has no problem finishing inside if he's not fouled, to say he's not even attempting to shoot is just hyperbole at its best.

Well, it would be, if you didn't then accuse McHale of drawing up plays solely to get Harden to the line. Just ridiculous. How would that even sound? Fuck trying to get an open look, we're sending James up the gut! Between all that and Harden blowing the refs, I'm starting to see some are going to be outraged if Harden wins the MVP this year.

You would put it past Morey to issue a directive like that? Despite literally everything he's done as an owner being geared towards advanced metrics? FTs and 3s. 2 most efficient shots in basketball. And it's a surprise why Houston is basically leading in both categories?

I use hyperbole and exaggeration to get a point across. Doesn't make the point any less valid. I figure you'd have picked that up sometime in the almost 2 years you've been here.

 

[CosmoKramer]

You would put it past Morey to issue a directive like that? Despite literally everything he's done as an owner being geared towards advanced metrics? FTs and 3s. 2 most efficient shots in basketball. And it's a surprise why Houston is basically leading in both categories?

I use hyperbole and exaggeration to get a point across. Doesn't make the point any less valid. I figure you'd have picked that up sometime in the almost 2 years you've been here.

Morey is the GM, not the owner.

And in this case, all you've got is hyperbole and exaggeration. James Harden isn't some manufactured superstar, he's a top-5 player in the NBA. In addition to being the league's leading scorer he's improved his defense to league-average and his playmaking into the upper echelon of all players.

In summary, that's fine if you don't think Harden is a great player X. The rest of the world disagrees with you, and that's going to be obvious when he's handed the MVP trophy this year.

 

[Man Called X]

Morey is the GM, not the owner.

And in this case, all you've got is hyperbole and exaggeration. James Harden isn't some manufactured superstar, he's a top-5 player in the NBA. In addition to being the league's leading scorer he's improved his defense to league-average and his playmaking into the upper echelon of all players.

In summary, that's fine if you don't think Harden is a great player X. The rest of the world disagrees with you, and that's going to be obvious when he's handed the MVP trophy this year.

And he'll just be another MVP that continually will get talked about for not deserving it. Just like Rose, just like Nash's 2, just like Dirk.

Winning 1 MVP award in a career means jack shit.

Harden will be nothing more than a perennial 1st/2nd round exit his entire career as "The Man." Truly couldn't care less.

 

[godfather]

How horrific does that Harden trade look now? OKC would have probably been a title contender with a combo of just Harden and Westbrook. Now you're praying Durant doesn't pull a Walton on you.

It was not a great trade, but I don't think they were ever winning a title with what they got.
Harden would never be able to produce like this if he was still playing with Westbrook and Durant.

I do think they didn't get enough for Harden. The trade was pretty much a disaster for them, but they didn't really lose anything at a team standpoint. I don't think think they're worse without him really.

But it would have been nice to have gotten at least one pretty good piece, and it's looking like they've got literally nothing for him.

Lamb still has a chance, but at the moment he's been replaced with Waiters in the rotation. That's not a vote of confidence.

 

[PedroFlu]

Honestly.. there are many candidates, but none of them convince me entirely.

Anthony Davis may already be the best of the league... but he's injury prone and his team is shit.

LeBron is not playing at MVP level. During the 2nd part of the season, Kyrie has been at least as important as him. And he has been irregular and struggling to score quite often.

Westbrook is an amazing player, but as he carries the team, he also hurts the team a lot. Can't give an MVP to a guy like this.

Curry... I just don't see him as an MVP. He doesn't have that alpha determination.. He just lacks something. He's a great, great player.. amazing really.. but I don't see him as the most valuable player of the league this season. I just don't. Warriors are deep as fuck, they are very well coached, but Curry lacks the ultimate determination/leadership to me. He's just not dominant.

Harden can really be irritating... but I think he's been the most valuable player of this league. He doesn't convince me completely, but I'd say he's the closest to a MVP right now. He's been dominant and very steady.

 

[brownindian]

Mmmmm Stephen Curry ... The most sauteed basketball player ...

 

[And1]

Wow, you've had a lot of laughably wrong takes on Harden today but I can't let this one go. Easy? It's not easy to carry a team in the West when Trevor Ariza or Donatas Motiejunas is your second best player.

It's just remarkable; instead of appreciating the league's best shooting guard for all the positives he brings to the court no one can get over how many free throws he shoots.

I don't know why I even bother. Please everyone, go back to wasting your time talking about manufactured superstars and how overrated one of the best five players on the entire planet is.

Flopper

 

[And1]

A team full of 3 and D players surrounding Harden....

I've seen that before. It was called the first Lebron Cavaliers.

Aren't Houston games something like on average a half hour longer than every other team's games because of the amount of time spent at the stripe?

Here's the thing, he's really not that good. Shooting 12 FTs a game doesn't suddenly make you elite. It means you're blowing refs in between games.

I don't understand why something so clear to so many people is so hard to see for others. The dude makes moves designed to initiate contact. He's not making a move to score a basket, he's making moves to draw a foul. Jumping sideways into a player because you don't have a good shot isn't "superstar basketball"

People that play like Harden in pick up games get dropped. First time he'd throw himself into a guy, he'd get his ass tossed on the concrete and that would be the end of his shit. But in the NBA, he's rewarded and considered a "top 5 player"

I've come to the conclusion that it's the MJ media syndrome.

Grest post. Right on the money. Hardens nothing special. Just gets more calls than any1 else in the NBA

 

[Urban]

Grest post. Right on the money. Hardens nothing special. Just gets more calls than any1 else in the NBA

Statistically he gets only 1 more call per game than LeBron.

But yeah the guy averaging 27-7-6 and highest EWA in the NBA is "nothing special"

It's OK not to like his playstyle, but just being a hater makes you look like an idiot.

 

[CavsHomer]

View: https://twitter.com/SportsTalkJoe/status/579654273782423552


View: https://twitter.com/SportsTalkJoe/status/579659458311249920

 

[Mdog1]

100 made field goals I assume? My god that's rough. There's really nothing to add, other than Harden isn't winning MVP. 16 games is nearly a quarter of the season...

 

[KI4MVP]

If curry wins, which seems likely, it'll be the weakest seasons by a winner. He played out of his mind to start the season, has fallen off lately.

Last year he averaged 24/8.5/4.3 on .471/.424/.885 splits and finished 6th in MVP voting

This year he averages 23.3/7.9/4.3 on .476/.417/.912 shooting

Has a player ever jumped from 6th to first while their raw stats declined year over year?

Harden's stats have fallen off even more. His FG% and turnovers have been atrocious while his team has struggled, losing 5 of their last 10.

LeBron started the season playing below his standards while the team struggled, then missed games, but has elevated us since then. Arguably turning us into the best team in the leuage heading into the playoffs. LeBron has also helped elevate Kyrie's game, but that could work against him since Kyrie has played well enough to finish somewhere in the top 10 in voting himself.

Wastbrook and Davis have put up big stats, but fighting the 8th seed isn't going to win MVP. I wouldn't expect either to finish higher than 4th.