Racial Tension in the U.S.

[OptimusPrime]

This morning, black lives advocates assembled outside Uptown Espresso in South Lake Union to decry the treatment of #BlackLivesMatter protesters by Seattle police. The location was important: this was the spot where, exactly one year ago today, teacher Jesse Hagopian was randomly pepper sprayed by a panicked SPD officer while talking on the phone to his mother.

Hagopian was joined by several others including lawyer Nikkita Oliver and photographer Jay Trinidad, not to mention city councilmember Kshama Sawant. But perhaps most interesting was the call by Marissa Johnson, one of the two #BlackLivesMatter organizers who shut down Bernie Sanders’ speech last year, to abolish the Seattle Police Department. (It was not clear how many of the other activists agreed with this goal.)

Here’s the full transcript of her speech:

I said this six months ago to presidential candidate Bernie Sanders: that Seattle is our nation’s Mecca of white hypocrisy. As we stand here today, that is still true.

I could tell you lots of stories about what I’ve experienced here in Seattle over the past year. I could tell you stories of mothers being beaten down on the ground and arrested and taken from their children. I could tell you stories of minors being maced by the police. I could tell you stories of grown men putting their hands on me. Even last year, down this street at MLK, there are photos of me with a grown man with his hands around my neck.

I could tell you about all of that, but it’s not necessary. We already know what’s going on:

Seattle hates black people. Well, I guess, Seattle doesn’t hate black people. Seattle loves black people, like misogynists love women.

This city is very important in terms of our national conversation for Black Lives Matter. And that’s what I want to speak about. Seattle has been so crucial in the fight for black lives across the nation, and repeatedly over the last year you have seen some of the biggest stories concerning police brutality and youth incarceration and overall engagement in the presidential election happen right here in this city.

Now how does that happen when we are one of the most progressive places, arguably, in this country? How is it possible that we have had some of the biggest scandals, in terms of policing, when we have on paper one of the most progressive use-of-force documents in the nation?

Well, it’s because Seattle is a model for the future. Nationally, everyone looks to us to see what will the future look like, if we can just educate people more. If we become more liberal. If we elect the right candidates.

Where it gets us is a future where white supremacy still reigns, but looks different. What we see in this white progressive utopia is that black people are still enslaved, they are still brutalized, but now it’s even worse because someone will tell you they love you while sticking their foot in your face.

That’s why black resistance in Seattle is so key. Because when we resist here against what is supposed to be a utopia, against what is supposed to be progress, we show the world that hope in white liberalism is death. And that the only solution is black self-determination and the full abolition of the police state.

And so I here, on the behalf of Black Lives Matter and on behalf of the work here in Seattle, am calling for the complete and utter abolition of the Seattle Police Department. And I think we’ve seen lots of examples about why this needs to happen and reform isn’t possible here, even under the federal consent decree.

The federal consent decree has very little meat in it. The majority of what it proposes is the creation of the CPC--the Community Policing Commission. They’ve been very unsuccessful thus far in getting any reforms passed, and specifically blocked. The mayor himself specifically appointed everybody on that committee. And when I confronted them last year, when they had me do an event for them, none of them could tell me what their jobs were or what their role was. Furthermore, they put forth numerous reforms for the city to approve, and the mayor has blocked them at every step. And then most recently we see this meeting that’s going on with SPD trying to reform and be in compliance with the DoJ. And yet who do they invite to the table? None of the names that they’ve most brutalized, and all of the people who are going to be in the most agreeance with them. This whole notion of accountability is a complete sham. And even worse, it’s dangerous for us, because it gets people in the illusion of thinking that there’s some progress being made.

So instead I’m calling for the people of Seattle to wholly call out this farce of reform on behalf of both the Seattle Police Department and the DoJ, who’s blocked reform efforts, and instead push for the full abolition of the police department. We already know who SPD is. They’ve been the same way for a century. They’re corrupt, they’re unaccountable, they’re violent, and they’re incredibly incompetent at their jobs and they’re going to stay that way.

So as Jesse said, people will continue to hit the streets. But they’ll do even more than that. We’re going to keep on dismantling from the inside out--in respectable ways, in underground ways--until the Seattle Police Department is abolished. Thank you.
Asked what she’d replace police with, Johnson responded with the following:

The community already does a lot of things that the police are supposed to do right now on their own, and do it way more efficiently. So for instance I’m a nanny. The Seattle police killed a man named Sam Smith this summer. He’s a white man, actually. They killed him, he had a knife, they said he ran into an SPD car, right? And if you watch the dashcam video there, I watched it with a friend, there’s a lot of ways you can deescalate that situation where no one has to die.

Many of the things that we say the police department does--we want them there to keep people safe, and yet they kill folks, beat folks. We want them there to protect our belongings, and yet they don’t actually do that for certain populations. So my argument is that the community is already doing a better job at maintaining public safety, is already doing a better job at keeping me safe. And that that happens when we’re connected together. So in the instance of Sam Smith who died, who was murdered by the Seattle Police Department--potentially, had someone called a nanny, a doctor, a teacher, instead of the police department, they could have created a situation to give that young man space, to deescalate the situation, and he might still be alive today.

And so when people say, ‘What are we going to do without the police?’ basically what they’re asking is, ‘What are we going to do when we have to take care of ourselves?’ And I want to remind everybody that we know in this city that the police are not here to protect the everyday person. We saw this with WTO. We know who they’re here to protect. They’re here to protect the one percent. They only allow the middle class to exist. And that’s why white folks as well, middle class white folks when they got out on the streets, got their asses handed to them just like black people. And so instead I’m calling on the community to step up, to take care of one another, to keep each other safe. I spoke to a police officer about a year ago as I was waiting in the police department to bail some people out of jail from Martin Luther King Day. And I was talking to him about police [and prison] abolition, and he said, ‘You don’t want me to let the people who are in this jail right here out on the streets. Some of them are murderers. Some of them are rapists. Some of them are thieves.’

You know what I told him? ‘I know some people. Some of them are murderers. Some of them are rapists. And some of them are thieves. But they have badges on like you, so they walk the streets. Or they have lots of money, so they walk the streets.’

The truth is we already live with murderers and rapists. We allow them to flourish, some of the most powerful people. So let’s be honest about the fact that police and prisons are not about our fear of violence. They’re about our wanting to control poor people. That’s why I push for police abolition.

http://www.seattleweekly.com/home/962679-129/blacklivesmatter-organizer-wants-complete-and-utter

 

[OptimusPrime]

Still too much focus on black/white, but at least she recognizes that it isn't just black people that suffer. It sounds like she is coming to realization that it is the ruling class vs. the peasant class, race notwithstanding.

 

[gourimoko]

Not her fault. The only reason she did it was because of the legacy of slavery and suffering through all those micro-aggressions when she was homecoming queen. She's a victim.

Right?

I fucking hate people who try to make race relations worse rather than better.

Go look in the mirror.

 

[gourimoko]

Still too much focus on black/white, but at least she recognizes that it isn't just black people that suffer. It sounds like she is coming to realization that it is the ruling class vs. the peasant class, race notwithstanding.

Not sure why the issue should be colorblind. There is a problem with institutional racism in this country.

Pretending like this doesn't exist doesn't begin to "recognize" the problem.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

Not sure why the issue should be colorblind. There is a problem with institutional racism in this country.

Pretending like this doesn't exist doesn't begin to "recognize" the problem.

The problem has been recognized. Now what? Tell cops not to arrest black people?

What I'm saying is, I don't think police need to be trained on how to handle black people. I think they need to be trained on how to handle everyone.

Drawing lines, even in a positive manner, triggers the natural human reaction of tribalism.

And anyways, the BLM movement has become laughably hypocritical at this point.

Edit: The problem has very much reached public discourse. Now it is time for the next steps of educating both the police AND the people who are gang banging giving black people a bad name. Education, on both sides, is now the key to the problem. There needs to be a concerted effort to get people in the 'hood' to see education as being cool.

 

[Soda]

The issue lies in the "vs." part of the race discussion, from what I've been reading.

The discussion/argument is not about equality. It's a direct push-pull correlation, IMO. The issue is being approached like a conversation between a car salesman vs. a buyer. Neither cares about one side being happy when it's over; both sides want it all.

For some whites, that means status-quo, or even reverting back to old times where black people were thought to be genetically inferior. For some black people it's about getting above white people all-together. This doesn't help and those are the loudest factions. I've come to realize that those factions aren't the ones we should be listening to, but I can't say that everyone in this Country has the willingness to dig into what they hear/read.

 

[gourimoko]

The problem has been recognized. Now what? Tell cops not to arrest black people?

This is why I stopped participating in the thread.. Like, you didn't really think that's what I meant did you?

 

[gourimoko]

Soda, I was literally nodding my head in agreement with everything you were saying...

The issue lies in the "vs." part of the race discussion, from what I've been reading.

The discussion/argument is not about equality. It's a direct push-pull correlation, IMO. The issue is being approached like a conversation between a car salesman vs. a buyer. Neither cares about one side being happy when it's over; both sides want it all.

For some whites, that means status-quo, or even reverting back to old times where black people were thought to be genetically inferior.

...until you wrote...

For some black people it's about getting above white people all-together.

I think that's a bit ridiculous.

This doesn't help and those are the loudest factions.

This isn't true; unless by loud you mean, subjectively loud - kind of like a dog whistle.

I've come to realize that those factions aren't the ones we should be listening to, but I can't say that everyone in this Country has the willingness to dig into what they hear/read.

And we're back into agreement.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

This is why I stopped participating in the thread.. Like, you didn't really think that's what I meant did you?

No, I don't think that's what you meant.

Honest question: what do you see as the practical solution now that it's been recognized that black people are treated unfairly by police?

In my mind, the solution is grass roots, comprehensive training with military-style stress management strategies.

That has nothing to do with focussing on black people specifically.

Edit: and body cams. body cams should be on every single police officer.

 

[Soda]

I think that's a bit ridiculous.
This isn't true; unless by loud you mean, subjectively loud - kind of like a dog whistle.

I totally have more exposure to the grievances of irrational white people, so I feel more comfortable in my assertion of how some of them would like things.

Maybe I am wrong about the idea of ascension above, but I have most definitely read that. Again, I wouldn't say it's necessarily reputable places where I've read it. I also don't think a ton of knowledgeable white people are rooting for a renaissance of eugenics, either.

 

[gourimoko]

No, I don't think that's what you meant.

I didn't think so.

Honest question: what do you see as the practical solution now that it's been recognized that black people are treated unfairly by police?

Body cameras; federal policing oversight by the DOJ; expansion of public funds for appointed attorneys - with some degree of oversight into qualifications of those attorneys using a results-based metric; repealing mandatory sentencing laws; ending the war on drugs (which is used as an excuse to stop, frisk, search, detain, arrest, and prosecute undesirables - Black or White, but disproportionately Black).

That's just a start, and none of those solutions would create an inequitable situation for any particular race.

In my mind, the solution is grass roots, comprehensive training with military-style stress management strategies.

That's definitely part of the solution, including community hiring and policing.

That has nothing to do with focussing on black people specifically.

It doesn't; but if you don't focus on the problem of institutional racism, then it's fairly difficult to address.

Everything is not going to be colorblind when we're dealing with issues of racial discrimination and injustice.

 

[Jordan]

No, I don't think that's what you meant.

Honest question: what do you see as the practical solution now that it's been recognized that black people are treated unfairly by police?

In my mind, the solution is grass roots, comprehensive training with military-style stress management strategies.

That has nothing to do with focussing on black people specifically.

But has it really been recognized? Tamir Rice and Sandra Bland are just two recent examples where there is a significant divide on if it was a race issue.

The issue with pretending the solution is a color-blind one is the same problem with a hosts of other solutions: American treatment of Muslims, women, and even the obese. Ignoring the fact that a specific group is being discriminated against -- or at least ignoring that the argument is about a specific group -- does a disservice to both sides.

I actually don't find arguments from the right regarding racial police violence problematic when they are debating the merits of the case. I don't even find a problem when people say police violence isn't racially motivated, it's violence motivated. But when people say that race is not a motivator and discussing it accomplishes nothing... well, that's problematic..

I'm not saying you are saying that. In fact, most in this thread aren't. But people are fooling themselves if they believe others just shut down when they hear race and do not want to discuss it. Color-blindness sounds great in theory, but when discussing complex issues, it hurts the socratic method more than helping it.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

I didn't think so.



Body cameras; federal policing oversight by the DOJ; expansion of public funds for appointed attorneys - with some degree of oversight into qualifications of those attorneys using a results-based metric; repealing mandatory sentencing laws; ending the war on drugs (which is used as an excuse to stop, frisk, search, detain, arrest, and prosecute undesirables - Black or White, but disproportionately Black).

That's just a start, and none of those solutions would create an inequitable situation for any particular race.



That's definitely part of the solution, including community hiring and policing.



It doesn't; but if you don't focus on the problem of institutional racism, then it's fairly difficult to address.

Everything is not going to be colorblind when we're dealing with issues of racial discrimination and injustice.

Yep, threw body cams into that post.

Ok, so we're on the same page. Obviously, if these policies are implemented, we'll need to keep an eye on how it affects arrest rates among minorities.

But as soon as you tell cops to be 'careful' with black people, or whatever you want to say, they'll start to question why, they'll be hyper-sensitive to everything black people do, and will look for excuses to say "See!!!! They're assholes."

As soon as someone uses the phrase "they" when they're thinking about how to approach a situation, we've lost.

 

[gourimoko]

I totally have more exposure to the grievances of irrational white people, so I feel more comfortable in my assertion of how some of them would like things.

Understandable.

Maybe I am wrong about the idea of ascension above, but I have most definitely read that.

Soda, even within the old 1990's era Black Nationalist movement, the goal was never to establish, within the United States, a system of Black racial superiority or "ascension." No one would ever believe that to be ethical, possible, or a goal worth achieving.

The driving force of African-American civil rights has never been rooted in the subjugation of other races, but the solidification of the equal rights afforded to all people.

Again, I wouldn't say it's necessarily reputable places where I've read it. I also don't think a ton of knowledgeable white people are rooting for a renaissance of eugenics, either.

I hear you bro.. My problem is where does the "White" component come into the BLM concept?

This issue is always phrased as Black vs White, but if you ask most Black people they would tell you this has nothing to do with White folks - White people are not the problem; it's an issue of policing, the criminal justice system, and centuries of institutional racism. Those are the core issues.

Now could you find some racist Black people railing against White folks? Yeah, of course. You could find those same people of any race railing against any other race. Hell, you could just go to a Donald Trump rally to find a large group of racists; they aren't hard to find.

But honestly it is depressing when you see/hear White folks interject into the opposing side of the conversation and seemingly tell Blacks that their grievances are not real but are instead imaginary manifestations of a victimhood mentality.

It speaks to the privileged position that has historically existed where the dominant majority would tell the sub-class race what to think and to know their place in society.

We see this exact narrative on this very page of the thread. It's disgusting.

This isn't a Black vs White issue. It never has been. It's an issue of ethical treatment of a discriminated class.

There's no reason White's can't be on the side of #BLM.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

Understandable.



Soda, even within the old 1990's era Black Nationalist movement, the goal was never to establish, within the United States, a system of Black racial superiority or "ascension." No one would ever believe that to be ethical, possible, or a goal worth achieving.

The driving force of African-American civil rights has never been rooted in the subjugation of other races, but the solidification of the equal rights afforded to all people.



I hear you bro.. My problem is where does the "White" component come into the BLM concept?

This issue is always phrased as Black vs White, but if you ask most Black people they would tell you this has nothing to do with White folks - White people are not the problem; it's an issue of policing, the criminal justice system, and centuries of institutional racism.

It's honestly depressing when you see White folks interject into the opposing side of the conversation and seemingly tell Blacks that their grievances are not real but are instead imaginary manifestations of a victimhood mentality. It speaks to the privileged position that has historically existed where the dominant majority would tell the sub-class race what to think and to know their place in society. We see this exact narrative on this very page of the thread. It's disgusting.

This isn't a Black vs White issue. It never has been. It's an issue of ethical treatment of a discriminated class.

There's no reason White's can't be on the side of #BLM.

Well....




View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwqzr_gmksM


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulk-DWECDDo