Racial Tension in the U.S.

[The Human Q-Tip]

The problem has been recognized. Now what? Tell cops not to arrest black people?

What I'm saying is, I don't think police need to be trained on how to handle black people, I think they need to be trained on how to handle everyone.

Drawing lines, even in a positive manner, triggers the natural human reaction of tribalism.

And anyways, the BLM movement has become laughably hypocritical at this point.

Edit: The problem has very much reached public discourse. Now it is time for the next steps of educating both the police AND the people who are gang banging giving black people a bad name. Education, on both sides, is now the key to the problem. There needs to be a concerted effort to get people in the 'hood' to see education as being cool.

Normally, the biggest complaint from inner city communities is that there isn't enough of a police presence. I do know of a few incidents where activists have demanded that the cops withdraw, and when they did...well, they were requested to return pretty quickly.

Police protection costs a lot of money, and I'm sure if enough voters in minority wards/precincts/whatever requested less police support, it would happen. In cities with a black majority, they could simply disband the police department and save all that money.

I suppose we'll just have to wait for that to happen. Unless that woman isn't representative of the average citizen living in those neighborhoods, that is....

 

[gourimoko]

Well....
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwqzr_gmksM

Can't watch the video... care to paraphrase?

 

[Damien O'Connel]

Can't watch the video... care to paraphrase?

"I don't talk to white media. Get out of my face cracker."

Then in the second one. "A white male with freedom on his hat. Bye cracker."

 

[gourimoko]

"I don't talk to white media. Get out of my face cracker."

Then in the second one. "A white male with freedom on his hat. Bye cracker."

And this means what? That racist people exist? Is that a revelation?

What does that have to do with anything I've said?

Again Damien, it's why I don't bother.. These folks are being used as examples as to why we should not try to establish and maintain a system of equal rights for all people?

If their comments have nothing to do with, and are in no way logically related to the argument in which I am making; why are they being posted as counterfactual examples against the point?

 

[Damien O'Connel]

And this means what? That racist people exist? Is that a revelation?

What does that have to do with anything I've said?

This guy wants to participate in the movement and help them, but they won't let him.

Just saying there are some scenarios where white people can't support BLM, even if they wanted to.

Many factions don't want the help.

 

[gourimoko]

This guy wants to participate in the movement and help them, but they won't let him.

Just saying there are some scenarios where white people can't support BLM, even if they wanted to.

There is no reason a White person couldn't support BLM. He could've ignored the people he was filming... if that particular situation was volatile he could've helped another place and time; fuck those people - they don't speak for the movement.

I'm not sure if you've ever been to a BLM rally, but the ones here in Pasadena have had large White turnouts. Of the folks that show up, I'd say around 40% aren't Black; many are Asian, Latino, and White.

Many factions don't want the help.

And that's not true. BLM is working actively with White people, particularly in the Democratic Party. This is simply false.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

But has it really been recognized? Tamir Rice and Sandra Bland are just two recent examples where there is a significant divide on if it was a race issue.

The issue with pretending the solution is a color-blind one is the same problem with a hosts of other solutions: American treatment of Muslims, women, and even the obese. Ignoring the fact that a specific group is being discriminated against -- or at least ignoring that the argument is about a specific group -- does a disservice to both sides.

I actually don't find arguments from the right regarding racial police violence problematic when they are debating the merits of the case. I don't even find a problem when people say police violence isn't racially motivated, it's violence motivated. But when people say that race is not a motivator and discussing it accomplishes nothing... well, that's problematic..

I'm not saying you are saying that. In fact, most in this thread aren't. But people are fooling themselves if they believe others just shut down when they hear race and do not want to discuss it. Color-blindness sounds great in theory, but when discussing complex issues, it hurts the socratic method more than helping it.

What does recognition mean though? We can talk about how blacks are treated unfairly all we want, but at some point we need to shift the conversation to one of solutions.

Right now, it's just a bunch of finger pointing and bickering. Maybe I'm ignorant to this, but where are the petitions advocating for specific policies to be put in place? Does anyone in the BLM have a specific plan for police reform?

THAT is what they should be pushing, a specific political agenda. Saying "Look, another black guy got shot!" while important, is not moving us any closer to true equality.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

There is no reason a White person couldn't support BLM. He could've ignored the people he was filming... if that particular situation was volatile he could've helped another place and time; fuck those people - they don't speak for the movement.

I'm not sure if you've ever been to a BLM rally, but the ones here in Pasadena have had large White turnouts. Of the folks that show up, I'd say around 40% aren't Black; many are Asian, Latino, and White.



And that's not true. BLM is working actively with White people, particularly in the Democratic Party. This is simply false.

All fair. You stated there are no reasons not to support BLM. If this guy said he didn't want to participate anymore, I wouldn't blame him.

Maybe I'm being unfair, it's a bit of a "gotcha" argument.

 

[gourimoko]

All fair. You stated there are no reasons not to support BLM. If this guy said he didn't want to participate anymore, I wouldn't blame him.

I wouldn't blame him either; but that'd be a fairly closed minded thing to do.

I mean, honestly, do you know how many times I've been called a n*gger, or have been discriminated against? Do you really think I hold those individual experiences against an entire race of people?

Some folks need to understand that African-Americans are not a monolithic group. Because one person says a thing does not entail that we all share his/her opinion.

Maybe I'm being unfair, it's a bit of a "gotcha" argument.

Indeed.

 

[Damien O'Connel]

I wouldn't blame him either; but that'd be a fairly closed minded thing to do.

I mean, honestly, do you know how many times I've been called a n*gger, or have been discriminated against? Do you really think I hold those individual experiences against an entire race of people?

Some folks need to understand that African-Americans are not a monolithic group. Because one person says a thing does not entail that we all share his/her opinion.



Indeed.

And I would never think that. But a lot of these reactions are born out of the BLM movement, because it doesn't have a clear goal to work towards.

The majority of people involved have their heart in the right place. But there are some who misconstrue the message and use it as a platform to promote racist ideas, and BLM does very little to condemn these people.

Remember when they shut down a Bernie Sanders rally?! Literally the only guy who can really help them right now. BLM should have apologized on behalf of those people.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Does anyone in the BLM have a specific plan for police reform?

The woman in the article I posted had the best plan for reform possible. The problem is that it will never be implemented, and you don't want it to be.

 

[The Oi]

I wouldn't blame him either; but that'd be a fairly closed minded thing to do.

I mean, honestly, do you know how many times I've been called a n*gger, or have been discriminated against? Do you really think I hold those individual experiences against an entire race of people?

Some folks need to understand that African-Americans are not a monolithic group. Because one person says a thing does not entail that we all share his/her opinion.



Indeed.

Who calls people a N***** these days? I've never heard a black person called it to their face. I didn't think it was possible anymore.

Is this cops? Bold white guys in groups?

What's the profile for the type of black guy that would be called a N***** without fear of retribution? Where is this happening?

 

[Damien O'Connel]

The woman in the article I posted had the best plan for reform possible. The problem is that it will never be implemented, and you don't want it to be.

The libertarian solution is just to get rid of the police.

THAT is something that won't be implemented, and that I don't want.

 

[gourimoko]

And I would never think that. But a lot of these reactions are born out of the BLM movement, because it doesn't have a clear goal to work towards.

No they aren't. Racism between Blacks and Whites has existed for centuries. BLM didn't create nor is it propagating racism towards White people. Rather, it is pointing out the continued injustices that exist for African-Americans in the United States. Some people decide to channel that narrative into one of racial animus, and that's unfortunate.

Also, if you don't think BLM has clear goals, then you're not familiar with the movement.

The majority of people involved have their heart in the right place. But there are some who misconstrue the message and use it as a platform to promote racist ideas,

That's true of many populist movements. I'm not sure what you're argument is though, or how it's meaningful?

and BLM does very little to condemn these people.

This is false.

Remember when they shut down a Bernie Sanders rally?!

Yes.. and because of that Bernie Sanders is their biggest supporter. He wasn't prior to that.

Literally the only guy who can really help them right now.

Not sure if this is meant derisively but, Sanders isn't "the only guy who can help them right now." Hillary Clinton has been more than vocal about these issues for some time. As much as I despise her, to say she's against BLM would be an outright lie.

BLM should have apologized on behalf of those people.

That's ridiculous, apologize for what?

It was Sanders who apologized for not paying enough attention to begin with, and it was Sanders' campaign who then and only then reached out to BLM. That protest, and the protest at NetRoots Nation against Sanders and O'Malley worked. They didn't protest Clinton because she actually approached BLM behind the scenes and met with their leadership.

To the point:

"Until Bernie Sanders sought the attention of Black Lives Matter participants, many were wont to acknowledge that a new racial justice movement even existed. For the record, since August 2014, more than 1,030 protest actions have been held in the name of Black Lives Matter. "

Because of the protest at NetRoots Nation, both NRN, MoveOn, ActBlue, the Sanders and O'Malley (and Clinton campaigns) have embraced the BlackLivesMatter movement. Sanders and Clinton and the BLM are actually forming partnerships to work towards these goals.

One of Sanders or Clinton will become President. Given that, the protest you're referring to may have been one of the most influential of it's kind in Presidential politics.

I think you're completely misreading the picture here if you see this differently.

 

[gourimoko]

Who calls people a N***** these days? I've never heard a black person called it to their face.

Take my word for it; it happens.

Is this cops?

That happens too.

White guys in groups?

Sometimes.

Where is this happening?

Throughout the country.