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Ring of Power Thread

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As a mild Tolkien zealot I feel like I'll end up hate -watching it at some point. While I roll my eyes a little at the attempts at inclusiveness-
I think a spinoff focusing on the the men/people/creatures of the East (including how the men of the West were exploitive of them), could both be inclusive and still be true to the story, without trying to shoehorn in race-
that in and of itself would never keep me from watching it; they need to stay true to the characters and the story lines, don't make up shit that contradicts the later story. I have total and complete doubt the writers of this will.

Okay, I'm a pretty big Tolkien zealot. I've read LOTR, the Hobbit, and the Silmarillion more times than I can count, plus a bunch of the background stuff. Just watched the first half of the first episode - paused there because of a phone call and then couldn't get it to restart. I think my mouth was hanging open kind of stunned the entire time. Forgetting all the complaints about casting,etc.., I'm almost at a loss for words about how shockingly off the whole thing felt. The amount of stuff they got flat-out wrong in just that amount of time was incredible. It honestly felt very much like the Star Wars sequels -- like they took the framework of the world, then told the stories all wrong.

I'll put most of my comments in spoilers, but I will say that I think their decision to compress the timeline in which they were going to tell the story of the Second Age was horrible. It looks to be more or less fatal error because it undercuts the whole theme of the Second Age. Anyway....

Galadriel:

I felt like Galadriel was absolutely trashed. In Tolkien's world, with one exception who apparently was not cast and does not appear in this series, Galadriel is the oldest and most "senior" elf in Middle-Earth. She's elf royalty. Yet in this show, she comes across as kind of an aggressive younger elf, "Commander Galadriel" ("Commander" doesn't exactly sound High Elven to me....) clearly inferior in status, bearing, lore, etc. to the High King, who in fact is her younger cousin. We meet her leading a small squad that apparently has been hunting for Sauron for hundreds of years, which again is something completely invented. When she later arrives in Linden for a meeting, another elf tells Elrond very casually that "your friend is here". As if Galadriel is just some "friend". Then at that meeting, she's clearly in a very subservient position to her younger cousin. Now granted, he's the High King, but she should be almost apart from that. There's really no mention, at all, of what her position in High Elven society truly is. IAnd Elrond, who is incredibly young at this time, speaks to her as if she is his junior, or at least noore than a peer. It's just a horrible diminution of who she is.

For anyone who ever watched Supernatural, the actress is a dead ringer in voice, bearing, and mannerisms to a certain female British Man of Letters, including often speaking without moving her lips.

Look at this clip, starting at 1:13.


Butchering of the Lore

I really couldn't believe how much of this they butchered in such a short period of time. We start off seeing a young girl Galadriel being bullied by another elf child. WTF? I didn't know Cuivienen (okay, it was Valinor) had discipline issues with kids. We then go to a voice over of how Morgoth "darkened the light of the Two Trees", with the trees being shown, then their light fading out. Huh? If you're going to tell that and show that story -- and it certainly could have been skipped -- then you have to show or mention Ungoliant. But nope -- Morgoth apparently just flipped the switch. We are then told and shown how all of the Elves got pissed and sailed over the ocean to fight Morgoth (no mention of Silmarils), with this noble elf fleet of which Galadriel was a part, sailing over. No mention of the Kinslaying, and no mention of the fact that most of the elves (including Galadriel) didn't go in ships at all, but rather had to head north and cross into ME over the ice. So after sailing over to fight Morgoth, they show a bit of a big battle in which Morgoth is eventually defeated. No mention, at all, of the Valar, or -- and this is really the more important part for what the Second Age is supposed to be centered around -- that some men fought alongside the elves.

Oh, we're also told/shown that her brother Finrod was killed by Sauron, who left this unique mark on his body that she later uses to confirm that Sauron is still alive. But Finrod wasn't killed by Sauron at all. Finrod was actually killed by a super wolf, and died defending his human friend Sauron didn't have shit to do with it. That is something the showrunners just invented, along with this mysterious mark Sauron allegedly left on Finrod's body. And they apparently invented that whole story because it fit with making warrior, wandering Galadriel hunting for Sauron the centerpiece of the entire story. Which, again, is crap.

Oh, and after saying that Morgoth was defeated, there's no mention at all of Beleriand sinking into the ocean -- half or whatever of ME being literally destroyed. Oops.

I understand that they didn't have the rights to all the First Age stuff. Fine. But they had the rights to enough of it to give background that was contradicted by the lore. If you're limited in what you can tell, then it is better to just be more general/brief as opposed to leaving implications -- or making outright statements -- that contradict the lore.

There was also this whole weird thing about how Gil-Galad apparently is the only one who decides when someone can go to Valinor, and that Galadriel doesn't have the right to refuse that summons when he tells/invites her to go. But that's just crap - the defiance occured at the very beginning of the Second Age among those elves who refused to return, not some hundreds of years later after some hintonfor Sauron.

It felt like fanfiction.
 
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I think it’s a little early to say that
will not be one of the central storylines to the entire series.

It will be introduced in episode three and featured heavily from that point on.

Clearly, they're going to mention it. The problem is that the Numenor and its fall should be central, and right off the bat. That's the story around which this entire series should revolve. Hell, the entire story about the Second Age is called "The Akallabeth", which is "The Downfall" in Adunaic. But according to what we've already seen, we are already many hundreds of years into the Second Age. In fact, at one point, Elrond says that Sauron was defeated "an Age ago." So they clearly made a decision to skip the Founding of Numenor, why it was founded, by whom, the relationship to Elrond, etc.. Maybe they'll give a backhanded, belated flashback, but that shouldn't be the case. Jeez, they did a 20 minute prologue. Could they not have made a mention of any of that then, because that should be part of the very foundational pieces on which the story is told. Instead, we're first going to learn about Numenor when it already is fully formed, and has been in existence for most of "An Age".

I think the reason they are doing that is the "time compression" factor, but also because that's not what they see as the central story. To them, the central story of the Second Age is "Galadriel's hunt for Sauron". And I think that is a fundamentally very shitty decision.
 
Clearly, they're going to mention it. The problem is that the Numenor and its fall should be central, and right off the bat. That's the story around which this entire series should revolve. Hell, the entire story about the Second Age is called "The Akallabeth", which is "The Downfall" in Adunaic. But according to what we've already seen, we are already many hundreds of years into the Second Age. In fact, at one point, Elrond says that Sauron was defeated "an Age ago." So they clearly made a decision to skip the Founding of Numenor, why it was founded, by whom, the relationship to Elrond, etc.. Maybe they'll give a backhanded, belated flashback, but that shouldn't be the case. Jeez, they did a 20 minute prologue. Could they not have made a mention of any of that then, because that should be part of the very foundational pieces on which the story is told. Instead, we're first going to learn about Numenor when it already is fully formed, and has been in existence for most of "An Age".

I think the reason they are doing that is the "time compression" factor, but also because that's not what they see as the central story. To them, the central story of the Second Age is "Galadriel's hunt for Sauron". And I think that is a fundamentally very shitty decision.
Everything I’ve read is it IS central and makes its first prominent appearance in EP3

Lots of the main 22 cast are Numenorians
 
Everything I’ve read is it IS central and makes its first prominent appearance in EP3

Lots of the main 22 cast are Numenorians

Is it not the case that they ignored its founding completely? I mean, seems to me we miss the whole thing about Elrond and his brother, right?
 
Is it not the case that they ignored its founding completely? I mean, seems to me we miss the whole thing about Elrond and his brother, right?
Oh gotcha. Yeah, no founding of Numenor. They’re not starting at the very beginning of the second age and nothing detailed from 1st. We’ll get dropped in in Numenor at it’s height, right before the Fall
 
Oh gotcha. Yeah, no founding of Numenor. They’re not starting at the very beginning of the second age and nothing detailed from 1st. We’ll get dropped in in Numenor at it’s height, right before the Fall

It's just a matter of emphasis. Is the Fall of Numenor the central theme, or just part of the setting they want to use to tell the other stories they're actually more interested in telling? At this point, we know about Harfoots, and about Saurons secret mark....but not about Numenor. The priorities just seem....off. Kind of like if the first two episodes of GOT had been all about Sansa and Arya bickering, and we still haven't gotten to Bran's fall. You'd start to think that the screenwriters had a different agenda than did the author.
 
It's just a matter of emphasis. Is the Fall of Numenor the central theme, or just part of the setting they want to use to tell the other stories they're actually more interested in telling? At this point, we know about Harfoots, and about Saurons secret mark....but not about Numenor. The priorities just seem....off. Kind of like if the first two episodes of GOT had been all about Sansa and Arya bickering, and we still haven't gotten to Bran's fall. You'd start to think that the screenwriters had a different agenda than did the author.
I’m still a little confused by your point?

Are you just bothered that they didn’t start with the founding of Numenor? And/or bothered/confused that they didn’t include Numenor in the first two episodes?

Or are you actually under the impression that Numenor is not going to be central ti this 50 hour, 5 season show?

Because all signs from casting, to showrunner interviews, location and set information, and to leaks and online discussion indicate that Numenor, it’s peoples, it’s rulers, and it’s actions are gong to be a major part of this entire show.

Like Isildur, Elemdil, Pharazon, Tar-Miriel, + two other main cast roles not from the Legendarium ( Kamen and Earien) are all a part of the main cast and have multi season arcs
 
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I’m still a little confused by your point?

Are you just bothered that they didn’t start with the founding of Numenor? And/or bothered/confused that they didn’t include Numenor in the first two episodes?

I'm not really confused. I understand why they did it. I just disagree completely with their decision. To me, they clearly believe the pursuit of Sauron is the central theme of the Second Age, whereas I believe that the central theme of the second age is the rise and fall of Numenor.

I do believe that defeating Sauron eventually does become the focus of the Second Age after the fall of Numenor, but that is very late in the Age. And this is all a product of deciding to compress the timeline, which means they simply can't give Numenor the emphasis it should have. Numenor becomes a central setting/background, a useful tool in telling the stories they really want to tell, but it isn't the focus of the story. It can't be when it literally goes unmentioned through the first two hours of the show.

]Because all signs from casting, to showrunner interviews, location and set information, and to leaks and online discussion indicate that Numenor, it’s peoples, it’s rulers, and it’s actions are gong to be a major part of this entire show.

I'm sure it will, because you can't tell the story of Sauron's rise to power without the destruction of Numenor. But what you lose by compressing the timeline is everything that comes before the final Fall of Numenor. And that's because they're not really interested in that except to the extent it has to do with Sauron.

I mean, Numenor had 22 rulers, and this show is going to give us just the last two. So they're going from a prologue, including the first 2 hours of the show, skipping right over 20 rulers, and going to the last two. All the potential exploration of the corners of Middle-Earth, the great "Sea-Kings of old", are being reduced to basically the last guy.
 
So I'm pretty into this show right now.

My early theories:

1) Meteor man is Tom Bombadil who will help this Brandyfoot family found the Shire

2) Halbrand almost assuredly ends up becoming a Ring Wraith. Easy guess is the Witch King but could be an origin story of one of the lesser known ones.

Personally like the way the orcs are being portrayed as a true threat and not just kinda, I dunno, easy to kill joke bad guys.
 
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So I'm pretty into this show right now.

My early theories:

1) Meteor man is Tom Bombadil who will help this Brandyfoot family found the Shire

2) Halbrand almost assuredly ends up becoming a Ring Wraith. Easy guess is the Witch King but could be an origin story of one of the lesser known ones.

Personally like the way the orcs are being portrayed as a true threat and not just kinda, I dunno, easy to kill joke bad guys.

Yeah, it has been better than I expected. I don't think it's House of the Dragon level, nor does it hold a candle to early season Game of Thrones, but it's definitely a hell of a lot better than Wheel of Time and probably on par (so far) with the second season of The Witcher, which I found to be a substantial step up from the first. Visually, it might be even more impressive than House of the Dragon, which I wasn't expecting. They spent an absurd amount on the show, but at least it shows in the production values. The main issue I have is that most of the characters are pretty flat so far. The hobbits that they can't legally call hobbits are interesting, but that's about it.
 
Yeah, it has been better than I expected. I don't think it's House of the Dragon level, nor does it hold a candle to early season Game of Thrones, but it's definitely a hell of a lot better than Wheel of Time and probably on par (so far) with the second season of The Witcher, which I found to be a substantial step up from the first. Visually, it might be even more impressive than House of the Dragon, which I wasn't expecting. They spent an absurd amount on the show, but at least it shows in the production values. The main issue I have is that most of the characters are pretty flat so far. The hobbits that they can't legally call hobbits are interesting, but that's about it.

I'm personally invested in Numenor the most.

Ar-Pharazon was my favorite character from the Silmarillion.

I do agree most of the characters are a little too cliche ATM and easy to predict.
 
Yeah, this show is starting to become really good. The latest episode was awesome.

Glad I stuck around through the first couple episodes.
 
Yeah, this show is starting to become really good. The latest episode was awesome.

Glad I stuck around through the first couple episodes.

Yea I'm definitely glad I didn't listen to the internet haters on this one.

Even my best friend who watched it first shat on it. He said the dialogue was shitty and dumbed down and Im just not getting that vibe at all.
 
Enjoying this show as ell and looking forward to when I can binge all 8 hours together has the movie it actually is.
 
As a Tolkien nerd, I'm trying so hard to like it but I can't. Probably in Q-Tips boat where I feel other stories of the Second Age are more crucial. Maybe it's the time compression. Maybe it's because I'm still salty that Tom Bombadil wasn't in the movie.

Something just feels off to me. Can't put my finger on it yet tho.
 

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