Shootouts and explosions in Paris

[Damien O'Connel]

What about refugee camps?

"Yes, you can come here. But you need to live in a tent w/o access to outside communication for as long as it takes us to vet you out."

Not ideal. But it keeps them alive and fed, and it keeps Americans safe.

How much are we willing to spend? How about 2% of the military budget for the next 36 months?

That'll do it.

 

[Notorious]

What about "refugee camps"?

"Yes, you can come here. But you need to live in a tent w/o access to outside communication for as long as it takes us to vet you out."

Not ideal. But it keeps them alive, and it keeps Americans alive.

How much are we willing to spend? How about 2% of the military budget for the next 36 months?

That'll do it.

Why is the world fighting over these people? This guy wants to take care of the whole problem out of his own pocket. It would probably be expedited if all of these countries just worked with him.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kerenbl...ting-to-buy-a-greek-island-to-house-refugees/


Why are we racking our brains on how to get them here?

 

[Pioneer10]

The Mafia didn't have an expressed goal to kill every living American....this is a different animal.

You would be be surpised. Much of the anti Italian conflicts including riots were based on earlier anti Catholic concerns. Essentially US Protestants feared thay the Catholics were coming. Ala the Thirty Years wars coming over to the New World

 

[Damien O'Connel]

Why is the world fighting over these people? This guy wants to take care of the whole problem out of his own pocket. It would probably be expedited if all of these countries just worked with him.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kerenbl...ting-to-buy-a-greek-island-to-house-refugees/


Why are we racking our brains on how to get them here?

What I just suggested could solve the problem. What's wrong with that?

I don't see how either side could oppose that solution without wanting some utopian fantasy.

Edit: Ok, make the refugee camp an island. Same thing.

 

[Notorious]

What I just suggested could solve the problem. What's wrong with that?

I don't see how either side could oppose that solution without wanting some utopian fantasy.

Again, why so anxious to get them here? This guy wants to keep them near home and employ them and all from his own pocket. Why not do that and save our money for our issues?

 

[Notorious]

Edit: Ok, make the refugee camp an island. Same thing.

You don't by chance run, own or own stock in a tent company do you?

 

[Damien O'Connel]

You don't by chance run, own or own stock in a tent company do you?

You understand that 1% of our defense budget is over $3 billion? You don't think $6 billion a year could make this happen?

And through the vetting process, we may uncover some actual ISIS members to interrogate.

That's called an ROI.

 

[JSS2306]

Science is almost becoming scarier then religion. Science is actually all theoretical. Nothing is known. What you think is fact today will be laughed at in 25 years. Just at it has been forever. Science is ever evolving. The problem today is people act like every scientific thing they learn is fact and insult others who don't know or don't believe this. That's exactly the opposite of science. Not much in science has survived 25-50 years in tact and that won't change for 1,000's of years if ever. Almost like people put all of this blind faith in science just like they do religions. Maybe it's a human nature thing.

Science is only scary when politics is used to sway an incomplete or controversial issue.

Science is always at odds with itself but also very necessary for almost every single piece of current technology available.

Religion puts up a big O'fer for any major technological advance. The world as we know it does not compute itself based on human faith.

Science might not be known for its stability but it certainly has more factual basis in this reality than anything religion considers rational thought. That IS a fact.

 

[natedagg]

I really appreciate this thread. Lots of good viewpoints, and a great example of why this isn't easy.

I don't think categorizations like "republicans" or "liberals" are constructive, as I find that divisive, but hey, it's just another lens into how people think.

My subjective opinion has been challenged, and it's currently under construction.

I generally think we can take on refugees and we should, but really I am not yet prepared to adopt a refugee, so I will not speak from my soapbox. I currently feel that pro-refugee citizens should take on some personal responsibility for helping, but because I haven't, my voice on the issue is hollow.

It's just an incredible topic of life's lenses. Economic, personal, religious, political, media-driven (mediacal?; medialomanical?) philosophical, and maybe strongest of all: humanistic or maybe even animalistic/evolutionary. "Everyone's got a plan until they have been hit in the mouth" as the threat of death, change, etc. sweeps the West.

Ramble over... Ideas still formulating. Thanks all for the input.

 

[Notorious]

Science is only scary when politics is used to sway an incomplete or controversial issue.

Science is always at odds with itself but also very necessary for almost every single piece of current technology available.

Religion puts up a big O'fer for any major technological advance. The world as we know it does not compute itself based on human faith.

Science might not be known for its stability but it certainly has more factual basis in this reality than anything religion considers rational thought. That IS a fact.

Science also has things like natural selection and survival of the fittest. Science is cold and calculating. You need a mix of the 2. Both are pretty shit on their own.

 

[LennoxLewis]

Kinda shocked with some of the back and forth, in regards to helping out our homeless here and in other countries, just readjust the foreign aid spending. Not taking in refugees in not only a cowardly act, but its Un American. This is what ISIS wants, they want us to fear them when we shouldn't.

 

[KI4MVP]

Kind of amazing to watch those saying what a terrible thing it would be to not let the refugees in come out against the poor. KI is acting like they don't want anything. All because they were pissed he tried to give them his misprints and overruns. Others are attacking their mental health. It's funny because one side seems to be like F those in need here and the other is like F those in need elsewhere. Both are riding high on the horse and both are shitting on a group of people to do so. Both sides think they are more moral than the other...

What are you talking about? I never said not to help people in need here, I tried to open a discussion about why they aren't getting help. It's a disgrace that there are so many homeless here in the United States.

And it's certainly true that quite a few of the homeless are mentally ill. I've seen it first hand. My brother had schizophrenia. He wasn't capable of taking care of himself. If not for our family, he most certainly would have been homeless.

 

[KI4MVP]

Do you have kids? A wife? If something happened to them like what happened in Paris? Are you ok with that because you didn't want to offend someone from Syria?

Below is Mathias and Marie. They were dear friends to quite a few of my friends. They were out enjoying a rock concert in Paris on Friday. Then at least one Syrian refugee and some other members of ISIS showed up.

Yes I have kids, one was flying to Egypt the day the Russian plan was blown up and flew home the day of what happened in Paris. Of course I worry for my kids.

What happened to the people in Paris was tragic. And absolutely go after the people who did it. Kill them all. Not just the ones directly involved, anyone in ISIS is just as guilty as the ones who did it.

But it's flat out wrong to use that to attack, harrass, threaten innocent people just because they are from the same country. They fled that country to get away from ISIS and have suffered great loss at the hands of ISIS.

And it goes beyond the Syrian refugees. There is too much blanket hate in this country for anyone from the middle east and anyone muslim. It's disgusting. Blaming all muslims for ISIS is like blaming all Christians for the atrocities of the Ku Klux Klan.

 

[Jordan]

I think we should have taken them in because 1) they didn't present a real risk

But a lot of the criticisms were real risks. Refugee Jews came from Poland, much of Eastern Europe, and Germany. These guys tended to be Marxists, and at the time, that was viewed as a legitimate threat to America. Not to mention the other stuff the article mentioned,

2) because it was a bigger conflict,

fair

3) because the poor bastards had nowhere else in the world to go.

I don' know that it is much different right now. I'll get into this more later, but Lebanon, Jordan, and Turkey have reached capacity. Rentier states just won't take them. And Europe -- sans Germany -- does not want them.

The real reason people didn't want them was basic, 2000 year old anti-semitism, which unfortunately existed in pretty much every nation on Earth.

Agreed. But, I'm not sure a good portion of the current frustration is historical anti-Islam (I hate the word Islamophobia) bigotry.

ETA: here's part of my frustration....

1) how many members/fighters does ISIS actually have?

Nobody knows for sure. Probably in the 10,000s to low 100,000s. The dilemma is a lot of those numbers, as we have discussed previously, are people working for ISIS because they need food/water/money and have few other choices.

2) how many Arab people are there in the ME?

A shit load.

3) how many Muslims are there in the world?

A fuck ton,

Why the fuck can't at least group 2) take out their own trash, i.e., 1)?

A few reasons. First, Muslims in Indonesia and Eastern Europe want nothing to do with the Middle East. Second, the Arab Gulf states are prioritizing Assad falling over defeating ISIS. This is also why they aren't accepting refugees. It makes it easier to create frustration over Assad, and then easier to radicalize. Finally, as @King Stannis has talked about, a lot of the Arab armies are absolute shit. Don't forget, a lot of ISIS members were part of Saddam's (secular) Ba'ath party and have excellent weapons and mediocre military training.

The fact that people on other fucking continents have to handle this shit is messed up.

Agreed.

 

[Huber.]

I found homes for the Syrians.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/07/20/what-will-become-of-chinas-ghost-cities/