Shootouts and explosions in Paris

[Notorious]

These people aren't floating around in camps or in the countryside; the Syrian refugees who are to be admitted have applied an average of 2.5 to 3 years ago. The one family that was deferred to Connecticut rather than Indiana due to Gov. Pence's actions had applied in 2011.

In Europe they are.

 

[gourimoko]

Notorious, I am genuinely trying to engage you in intellectual discourse. Honestly, I am.

Again voting for someone else to spend their time, money and resources to make a wrong right doesn't make you moral.

Who is someone else? We as a society are a collective group. If that group makes decisions, collectively and justly, then it is for the whole.

If society elects to wage war on Afghanistan and Iraq; I as an Arab-American don't get to say "don't use my tax money, fuck this, I quit." I'm a part of society, that's what society is, that's what it means. That's what social contracts are for.

Beyond that you use the phrase "a wrong," which suggests a moral argument.

On what moral basis is your argument founded?

It makes you fucking lazy.

How? Voting makes you lazy? How does this make rational sense?

Set the example.

You mean me personally? I try to.

Sell your car, live in squalor, send all of your cash to Syria or Ethiopa. You be the example.

But.. I'm not asking anyone to do that. Why would I be the example for something that I don't think others should do?

I'm asking for us as a society to help these people. You understand how that is different than asking an individual to take personal action and personal responsibility over such a monumental feat right?

It's like saying, don't support action against ISIS until you fucking pick up a gun and get your ass over there yourself.

Such an argument is nonsensical, and can't be had in good faith because it presupposes a condition of anarchy and hyperindividualism that doesn't exist in reality.

Beyond that, I can't send money to Syria personally, as an action of my own, or I'd be arrested. I can't get a visa to go to Syria, as I'd likely be put on a watchlist.

So let me ask you, with this said, do you understand my position? Can we have a rational discussion about the policy?

We're 18 Trillion dollars in the hole. I'd say our back is pretty broke.

The United States isn't remotely "broke." As I demonstrated in the POTUS thread, even conservative think tanks agree we can pay this debt down. I think a great deal of misunderstanding comes out of conversations relating to deficit spending and the national debt as it's not a very well understood phenomena.

 

[gourimoko]

In Europe they are.

I thought we were talking about the refugees coming into the United States?

 

[Mr. Orange]

I just don't understand this 1 years 2 years stuff being said. These people are coming over on a boat and then just running through Europe. Hopping on trains in mass. Wondering the countryside. This is all part of a vetting process? How are we vetting these Syrian refugees for a year?

Europe isn't. The US apparently is. I'm not sure how we are but that's what the news correspondent said today.

Edit: see gour's post above. He has some more information on the vetting

 

[Sumac13]

I just don't understand this 1 years 2 years stuff being said. These people are coming over on a boat and then just running through Europe. Hopping on trains in mass. Wondering the countryside. This is all part of a vetting process? How are we vetting these Syrian refugees for a year?

Perhaps by vetting those remaining in the refugee camps. Not all are fleeing, especially if they are already in the process of being vetted. We would just take more than we would normally, probably those that would have been assigned to European countries.

 

[gourimoko]

We live on a pebble of sand in an infinite ocean. We can't even make a voyage to another pebble of sand. 100 years from now they'll laugh hysterically at us.

You do realize this happened?

 

[Simon]

You do realize this happened?

He probably thinks this was fake.

 

[pr26]

Why not just get started. Do you have any extra cash? An unused couch or bed? Are you eating more than you should be?

By next week I'm expecting a full report from you and Gour on where you started and where you are with helping those in need.

Well I donate my money and my time to various charities and campaigns I'm passionate about, and I do typically donate old clothes/furniture whenever I upgrade. Being honest though, I can do way more as most could.

I know you are coming at me from a tone of sarcasm since you probably believe I expect something out of our government that I wouldn't expect out of myself, and that's fine. There's probably some validity to that for many, but not all like some on the right like to characterize with those ever so popular broad sweeping generalizations.

Anything else I'd want to say on this matter is probably best left to another thread.

 

[Notorious]

You do realize this happened?

I do. I do also realize you grasp the point.

 

[Notorious]

Well I donate my money and my time to various charities and campaigns I'm passionate about, and I do typically donate old clothes/furniture whenever I upgrade. Being honest though, I can do way more as most could.

I know you are coming at me from a tone of sarcasm since you probably believe I expect something out of our government that I wouldn't expect out of myself, and that's fine. There's probably some validity to that for many, but not all like some on the right like to characterize with those ever so popular broad sweeping generalizations.

Anything else I'd want to say on this matter is probably best left to another thread.

I am not left or right. It's hard to imagine, but there are 300 million people in this country and not all of them can be fit into 2 molds.

 

[Notorious]

He probably thinks this was fake.

The shadows!!!! They're all wrong!

 

[pr26]

I am not left or right. It's hard to imagine, but there are 300 million people in this country and not all of them can be fit into 2 molds.

That's fair. And I can probably say the same about myself.

So what exactly was the point of your post again, so you didn't address anything else I said?

 

[Notorious]

That's fair. And I can probably say the same about myself.

So what exactly was the point of your post again, so you didn't address anything else I said?

Was I supposed to address something in there? The only thing I saw directed at me was that I'm right wing.

Were you wanting me to critique your charity habits?

 

[gourimoko]

I do. I do also realize you grasp the point.

Honestly bro, I understand the point you are trying to make, but I am also trying to explain to you why that point is not true.

What questions about the universe do you have that you think are completely left unanswered? Do you think these questions are so vast that they negate our understanding of reality?

 

[gourimoko]

Were you wanting me to critique your charity habits?

To be fair, you did indeed ask @pr26 and myself to report to you about just that before we ask society to do anything for the Syrian refugees.