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Shootouts and explosions in Paris

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I'm not acting like it bounces. I'm acting like it learns. Or more specifically we learn more of it as time passes. That's it.

Ever heard the story of the dog who can't learn a new trick. When you think you have the answers to everything and you can't got of a rock in an ocean you are the dog who can't learn a new trick. Real scientists don't have that problem. I've watched many of them eviscerate people with this science knows all, F you attitude.

of course science learns, nobody would go into science if they thought everything knowable had already been discovered.

You don't reject scientific theory because something better might come along. You go with what you have, because it's the very best we know, and hunt for that something better. Use the Netwon/Einstein example again, Newton's theory is still taught because it's very, very accurate for the things it's used for.
 
of course science learns, nobody would go into science if they thought everything knowable had already been discovered.

You don't reject scientific theory because something better might come along. You go with what you have, because it's the very best we know, and hunt for that something better. Use the Netwon/Einstein example again, Newton's theory is still taught because it's very, very accurate for the things it's used for.

Exactly...

I went into physics to make new physics; not in a vain attempt to rewrite what came before me.

And to your point, Newton's laws are still used today; they're very accurate if you don't need to account for GR.
 
Why are there so many homeless in america?

Because the mega-government allegedly supplying a safety net while squeezing businesses for more money isn't working. You're a business owner, you have to see it. It's not as easy to make money as it was before with a smaller government. Who loses? Middle class and the poor. 5% unemployment rate is a joke...another massive percentage has been relegated to part time, has given up looking altogether...many are addicted to recreational/prescription drugs. Our problems are accelerating under Obama. Only chance for the homeless is for the private sector to give them jobs. For that to happen, big government has to take off the red tape and chains.

If you like big government, vote Democrat...it doesn't really matter the nominee. If you like smaller government and want the private sector to pull us out of this tailspin, vote Republican...regardless of the nominee. All the candidates from both parties have their warts. You need to remember you aren't voting for a dictator. He/She will have a cabinet full of advisers, you also have the Senate/Congress that would prevent them from doing anything too outlandish...unless their last name is Obama who shits on the constitution and does what he wants.
 
If you like smaller government and want the private sector to pull us out of this tailspin, vote Republican...regardless of the nominee.

Name the last Republican president to shrink the size of government. Oh, right, that person doesn't exist. If you are really serious about smaller government, vote for a Paul or vote third party.
 
Name the last Republican president to shrink the size of government. Oh, right, that person doesn't exist. If you are really serious about smaller government, vote for a Paul or vote third party.

I'm all for either Paul, sadly one isn't running and the other won't get the nomination. :(
 
Why don't they run on the same ticket?

Well, Ron is 80 years old, that's why he won't be running for anything. Although it's not a bad idea. Maybe if Rand came out and said Ron would be his running mate he would pick up his father's supporters that he lost from 4 years ago and he would be polling higher than 3-4%.
 
Pretty interesting article. While many have painted GWB as a president of "good and evil" -- a reference to how he polarized Americans against one another -- his position on Islam was, at the very least, slightly more nuanced. Not defending his foreign policy at all, but rhetoric is definitely an important analytical tool.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...zations/?postshare=5991448029547843&tid=ss_tw

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump said this week that as president he would “look very, very carefully at mosques” and would not rule out the creation of a national database for Muslims. Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) declared America to be “at war with radical Islam,” adding that failing to say so “would be like saying we weren’t at war with Nazis, because we were afraid to offend some Germans who may have been members of the Nazi Party but weren’t violent themselves.” Not long ago such views would have been far beyond the pale for acceptable mainstream discourse. But today they barely stood out in a presidential field desperately outbidding each other to be the toughest on “radical Islam.”

Rhetorical excess in a presidential primary is nothing new, of course, but something more seems to be going on this time. The public discourse surrounding the so-called Islamic State seems like a major step backward from the hard-won analytical progress of the previous decade. Five years ago, political scientists and the broader policy community had developed a robust and sophisticated understanding of the nature of Islamist movements. The organizational and ideological differences between Islamists like the Muslim Brotherhood and al-Qaeda were well-understood. So was the constructivist logic of al-Qaeda’s use of terrorism to encourage polarization, spread their unpopular worldview and promote a “clash of civilizations.” Politicians across the spectrum understood the strategic as well as moral importance of denying al-Qaeda its audacious claim to represent Islam. Today, the American public sphere is arguing over the political urgency of using the words “radical Islam,” the Islamic credentials of the Islamic State and whether “Islam is a religion of violence.”

This isn’t just the usual histrionics of presidential candidates. The op-ed pages, policy journals and talk shows are now filled with earnest discussions of the Islamic nature of the Islamic State and the pathologies of Islam as a religion. There’s nothing surprising about the persistence of such ideas within the anti-Islamic fringe, which is ideologically committed, well-funded and enjoys access to a robust conservative media ecosystem. It is the mainstreaming of once fringe ideas about Islam that is so disturbing. The insistence by mainstream pundits that “the Islamic State is really Islamic” is a worthwhile analytical debate, but in the current climate it has served as a gateway for the mainstreaming of ideas about the pathologies of Islam once contained on the radical fringe. It isn’t just the politicians and the pundits – the center of gravity among the policy community has palpably shifted as well.

Why is this happening? Partly, it is simply the reality of the Islamic State’s terrorism and savvy use of horrifying media spectacles to generate publicity. Last year’s beheadings of journalists and burning alive of hostages received enormous media coverage and genuinely shocked a worldwide audience. Last week’s Paris terrorist attacks, like the slaughter of Charlie Hebdo journalists, seemed to signal a frightening new type of low-cost, indiscriminate urban terrorism. But I don’t think that’s enough to explain this new public discourse. Jihadists have always sought to use terrorism to polarize politics, spread their ideas, discredit moderates and advance their preferred narrative of clashing civilizations. They have not always been so successful in winning mainstream acceptance for their narrative.

I would highlight three possible explanations. One part of the answer may be the pervasive effects of social media. By this I do not mean the Islamic State’s use of social media for recruitment and propaganda, as impressive and interesting as this phenomenon has been. Instead, I mean the ways in which social media itself is structured, creating new openings for extreme ideas to gain traction with the broader public. Social media networks typically tend to encourage ideological clustering, in which self-selected communities of the like-minded cultivate shared narratives, identities and arguments. Today’s pervasive social media is organically interwoven with broadcast media and more traditional print publications in ways that facilitate the movement of these narratives from isolated clusters into the mainstream. The 9/11 attacks took place at a moment when blogs had only just begun to reshape the American political public sphere, but the Islamic State’s rise has occurred in an era of near complete social mediation of information and opinion. Such an environment seems highly conducive to the cultivation and nurturing of radical fringe ideas – and their transmission into the broader public arena.
A second strand is the absence of George W. Bush. For all his other foreign policy struggles, Bush was staunchly opposed to the demonization of Islam, and frequently argued — as Hillary Clinton does today — that America was not at war with Islam. He understood the importance of denying the al-Qaeda narrative of a clash of civilizations. Bush’s stance acted as a check on the anti-Islamic impulses of the right wing base. That obstacle has long since passed from the scene. President Obama’s invocation of the same themes invites the opposite response. The right wing now can be unified against this rhetoric, without Bush to restrain them. Meanwhile, the waning of the Obama presidency has encouraged a large portion of the policy community to position themselves against the outgoing administration, which typically means adopting more hawkish and interventionist positions. By the old political math, the majority of Democrats combined with the Bush Republicans to block the anti-Islamic trend. By the new political math, the vast majority of Republicans combines with enough Democrats to push the “center” well to the right.

A third factor is the real changes within the Islamist landscape, far beyond the Islamic State itself. Syria has generated a wide variety of jihadist groups, which often position themselves against the Islamic State. Local insurgencies that once took on the al-Qaeda label now embrace the Islamic State’s franchise. Above all, the 2013 Egyptian military coup and subsequent repressive campaign against the Muslim Brotherhood severely weakened one of al-Qaeda’s traditionally most powerful competitors. The destruction and demonization of the Brotherhood has likely contributed to eroding the idea of a mainstream Islamism buffering the jihadists. The political push by Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates to label the Brotherhood a terrorist organization has reshaped the politics of the issue as well. Propaganda from the region against the Muslim Brotherhood then refracts through the Western public discourse. Old debates revolving around the Brotherhood’s role as a firewall against extremism are now far less relevant, with its organization shattered and ideology of peaceful participation discredited. Analysts who follow Islamism closely are now in uncharted territory, creating openings for those peddling simple, well-rehearsed narratives about Islam.

All of this may help to explain the timing of this eruption of anti-Islamic political discourse into the mainstream political public. But this does not make it any less disturbing. Obama was on the mark when he warned recently, using another name for the Islamic State, that “I cannot think of a more potent recruitment tool for ISIL than some of the rhetoric coming out of here in the course of this debate. ISIL seeks to exploit the idea that there’s war between Islam and the West … that feeds the ISIL narrative.” The seemingly endless recurrence of the “clash of civilizations” narrative, after long years of hard-fought analytical progress and painstaking policy work, is an object lesson in the resilience of populist ideas in the face of academic and public criticism.

Promoting a clash of civilizations and destroying the reality of productive coexistence between Muslims and non-Muslims was always at the heart of al-Qaeda’s strategy. The Islamic State has avowed the same goal of eliminating the “gray zones” of toleration. With American political discourse these days, the prospects for escaping the iron logic of this strategy have never looked more dismal.
 
Well, Ron is 80 years old, that's why he won't be running for anything. Although it's not a bad idea. Maybe if Rand came out and said Ron would be his running mate he would pick up his father's supporters that he lost from 4 years ago and he would be polling higher than 3-4%.

Lets face it, Rand does not have a chance, he is two extreme to get the majority vote, right or wrong. I just don't know why we cant get a guy like Rand who maybe has great ideas, but is afraid to compromise at all in order to get votes.
 
Lets face it, Rand does not have a chance, he is two extreme to get the majority vote, right or wrong. I just don't know why we cant get a guy like Rand who maybe has great ideas, but is afraid to compromise at all in order to get votes.

Too extreme on what? He lost his father's supporters because he isn't extreme enough and compromises on everything.
 
Hostage situation at a hotel in Mali. Three dead (one French, two Malians). I guess they were holding some kind of diplomatic conference so lots of internationals were held hostage including American, French, Chinese, etc. American/French/Mali soldiers with the counterassault, some people evacauted.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/20/africa/mali-shooting/index.html

I read on another article that an al Qaeda affiliatory is taking "credit".
 
Thanks for this enlightening discussion about this topic. I've really never paid as much attention to the happenings in that part of the world as much as I have in the past couple years, and it's great to hear all sides in a respectful and cohesive manner.

I would like to offer input on the refugee situation...

We HAVE to participate in the acceptance of refugees. It's our responsibility as part of our pacts with nations, and our responsibility to humanity. Refugees are specifically people that are displaced from their home and fear death. Unlike the chronically homeless in the US, or the putrid conditions is all parts of the world, refugees are left with no home nor resources, and need a place to go. I can go deeper into the homeless issue if anyone's interested in knowing what works - my organization develops affordable housing and permanent supportive housing to ensure low income Americans have stable housing.

ISIS does not want refugees leaving. ISIS will do whatever it can to get them back. Any negative reaction to refugees works in their favor. "The Western world rejects you, rejects Islam - your only choice is to return here, and die, or be part of us." If they get 20, 30, 50% of returning refugees, they win. They get stronger. That's why they plant a false refugee passport after the attacks, to further feed that sentiment. That's why they'd love for Trump to become president and hate them, because that will give them more avenues to recruit and gain power.

A policy to simply reject refugees, solely on the basis of their country of origin, will be just as effective in preventing terrorists from coming here as a policy to have white supremacists not bear any more children because a handful of them will turn into mass shooters and kill our children. It's irresponsible. They're already here. And it's not solving the problem, just throwing a blanket on it. By demonizing all Syrians because they may be terrorists, you're only creating animosity, which in turn will create terrorists where there weren't before.

I understand you don't want to deal with them now, and it's not what's being proposed. Refugees are flocking to Greece on inflatable boats because the trip over the Med. Sea is doable, same way it's conceivable that someone can make it over to Florida from Cuba. Do you really think anyone, even an able-bodied man, would be able to essential kayak over the Atlantic with 20 other people to feed? This is 10,000 per year, spread out. They have to be vetted. They have to get on a plane, or at the very least a chartered cargo ship. They have to stay in the squalor of a refugee camp through intense questioning and vetting to even get selected to be sent to America, over the dozens other countries that are closer and accepting refugees.

And when they get here? Not all of them are great. But from what I've seen, refugees are given a 6 month window of support to integrate. Learn the language, figure out how to get a job, and figure out a way to get educated. They do that fast. They stay together as huge nuclear families, and support each other. One goes to school, while the other is a sandwich artist at Mr. Hero. Or at our casino. Once one gets a reasonable degree, they switch roles. They take care of their own, and embrace the opportunity our great country gives them and returns it ten fold. Because the alternative was death.

And there's more that can be done. Our immigration system is whack. Terrorists can easily find ways to enter the country through student visas, through tourism, anything. The biggest anti-immigration measures are related to work - basically crafted to prevent Mexicans jumping the border to take low-paying jobs. Which is why that girl from Germany wasn't allowed in over the summer. That needs to be fixed.

And we can engage these refugees as well. Mandate whistleblower policies. If you know of any immigrants, refugees, or ANYONE thinking about any type of terrorist activity - you're just as responsible as the planners if you don't report it. They hate the terror as much as we do. That's what they're running from. They can work with us to prevent domestic attacks.

I think Trevor Noah said it best (I'm sure others have, but the first place I heard it) "The only way to overcome inhumanity, is humanity itself"

We can't be bullied into stripping our humanity for our personal safety. It breeds inhumanity, which makes the terrorists stronger, in turn makes us even less safe.
 
Obama was on the mark when he warned recently, using another name for the Islamic State, that “I cannot think of a more potent recruitment tool for ISIL than some of the rhetoric coming out of here in the course of this debate. ISIL seeks to exploit the idea that there’s war between Islam and the West … that feeds the ISIL narrative.” The seemingly endless recurrence of the “clash of civilizations” narrative, after long years of hard-fought analytical progress and painstaking policy work, is an object lesson in the resilience of populist ideas in the face of academic and public criticism.

Promoting a clash of civilizations and destroying the reality of productive coexistence between Muslims and non-Muslims was always at the heart of al-Qaeda’s strategy. The Islamic State has
avowed the same goal of eliminating the “gray zones” of toleration. With American political discourse these days, the prospects for escaping the iron logic of this strategy have never looked more dismal.

I think the exact opposite is true.

For some reason, when proponents of this idea hear the phrase "radical Islam", they eliminate the word "radical" and hear only "Islam." It's a really strange phenomenon, and I'm not sure why otherwise sharp people buy into it. The word "radical" is a modifier that clearly means the phrase doesn't apply to all of Islam. It's English 101. And yet, some people keep insisting that's what it means -- that if you condemn "radical Islam", you're really condemning all of Islam. That's....stooopid.

Which leads to why I think this reasoning is exactly backwards. By refusing to recognize the significance of the modifier "radical", you are putting all Muslims in the same category. And you've got a crapload of people around the world who have enough common sense to see that there is an Islamic component (radical, twisted, or whatever) to this wave of terrorism and oppression. But by refusing to recognize that publicly, it appears (and I think is factually true) that proponents of that idea are denying reality. So when you deny something that is obvious to the vast majority of people, they don't trust you.

This is a clash of civilizations, and I don't know why some folks are so fired up about denying it. It should be good people of all religions against these radical Islamic freaks. When King Abdullah speaks out the way he does, Westerners rally around that and recognize the existence of a strong, brave, moderate Muslim. By being so willing to call out the bad guys for what they are, he separates himself from them. Is it not good to have public separation between moderate and radical Muslims?
 
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That's why they plant a false refugee passport after the attacks, to further feed that sentiment.

Where is the evidence that this was "planted" as opposed to something that was actually used? And at this point, why does it even matter? They have confirmed via fingerprints that the dead terrorist actually did enter Greece as a refugee. So whether the passport was planted or not, the refugee/terrorist connection was confirmed.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/16/us-france-shooting-bomber-greece-idUSKCN0T50U420151116

And whatever you may claim ISIS wants with respect to the U.S., it is inarguable that the masses of refugees flooding Europe are being screened very poorly, if at all. And that ISIS is using that flood to insert terrorist cells into Europe.
 
The issue of the refugees is a tough one. If you take them in, you know many of them will be coming here for retribution. If people still had the right to defend themselves here then that wouldn't such a huge problem. But people have the absolute right to travel on public/unowned property, so if they come here no one should stop them. They don't at all have a right to any welfare benefits, or any property that belongs to anyone else though, so they might as well go somewhere else. The fact is there wouldn't be any refugees if it weren't for U.S. meddling over there, and whatever the government decides to do will be a disaster, so I'm not going to worry about it.
 

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