The Bench

[MRMsix6]

Is this a dump on Zeller or am i missing a player? I agree with everything else,. but I think its way early to call out Zeller.

Michael Eric

 

[FiveThous]

If our bench was a genre of music, it would definitely be "the blues"

 

[Jon]

When I didn't underline some of those guys, especially the rookies, that meant they don't look like crap out there, they're at least average or better. That's not giving them credit, they themselves proved in short time they have a place in the league. Clearly you don't think they're not at least average at this point?

I just feel the bar is a little higher than "don't look like crap" for an NBA average player.

 

[rabman_gold]

I just feel the bar is a little higher than "don't look like crap" for an NBA average player.

That's probably because you throw your two-cents into something pointless. All four are 22 or younger and two of them aren't drinking age. You can't set the bar too high just because you expect to see something but you can't write them off, because they've shown enough to warrant a place. Or do you want to compare Kyrie to Sloan or Thompson to Samardo or Leuer? Thompson was forced to play center last year because Hollins, Luke, and Samuels sucked so badly. He didn't do half bad. As for Zeller and Dion, even though they are the least proven, Zeller will produce, as he's shown in his limited time and Dion already showed flashes of brilliance to not be horrible.

By the way, we're talking about the bench here. With Zeller missing 4 games, the entire bench has cost us multiple games. I'm certain that Thompson nor Dion is a reason for that.

 

[Jon]

That's probably because you throw your two-cents into something pointless. All four are 22 or younger and two of them aren't drinking age. You can't set the bar too high just because you expect to see something but you can't write them off, because they've shown enough to warrant a place.

The problem here is you have to make excuses. They're all promising players for their age - but including age is tossing them a mulligan. That doesn't necessarily make them all average or better by NBA standards.

Experience means you can take an "average" NBA vet and add them to the rotation of a contender, and they won't kill you with their mistakes - they'll either give you solid offense, or solid defense, or some of both.

 

[BobQCarter]

 

[Giambiwannabe7]

^^^Tanks on heads?

That is just terrible.

 

[Toph]

 

[rabman_gold]

The problem here is you have to make excuses. They're all promising players for their age - but including age is tossing them a mulligan. That doesn't necessarily make them all average or better by NBA standards.

Experience means you can take an "average" NBA vet and add them to the rotation of a contender, and they won't kill you with their mistakes - they'll either give you solid offense, or solid defense, or some of both.

I really hate to say it (because I just wasted 30 minutes on this crap), but why do you even care? Do you really want the last word or debate this to death? I could really go on forever since, for the most part, you're a good debater. But aren't you just making excuse by saying "I'm throwing them mulligans because of their age"? If age or years played had to do with it, then the veterans that would improve our team would be signed and we would at least be competitive throughout the four quarters, just like you said previously in this thread.

You don't have to feel like you made your point, because that's just obnoxious, and I should know since I've gone through the same thing in real life. We aren't drilling them into the ground, and when they play together they're gaining some confidence. And they will get much better too.

Your move, Jon...

 

[wuck]

From Jason Lloyd:

----

Cavaliers unhappy with play of reserves, but veteran signing isn’t imminent

By Jason Lloyd
Beacon Journal sports writer
Published: November 17, 2012 - 08:12 AM

INDEPENDENCE: The names are out there — NBA veterans still without a team who could be considered an upgrade over the players on the Cavaliers’ bench. Yet two weeks into the season, the Cavs aren’t believed to be aggressively shopping in the leftover bin that includes guys like Mickael Pietrus, Kenyon Martin, Derek Fisher and Gilbert Arenas.

Josh Howard was there, too, until the Minnesota Timberwolves recently signed him to a one-year deal.

Just because the Cavs haven’t already signed Fisher as their backup point guard or another veteran doesn’t mean they’re content with their bench — far from it. If things don’t improve, they haven’t ruled out bringing in a veteran.

“If I said I had the right pieces from the bench standpoint, then I’d be lying,” coach Byron Scott said. “I’m not going to sit here and say I’m satisfied with the way our bench is playing because I’m not. I know our bench can play a lot better than they’ve played.”

The Cavs’ front office is fully aware of the free agents available and they’re constantly monitoring the situation, but they’ve also gone to great lengths to build a roster of youth that can grow together. The season isn’t quite yet 10 percent complete.

Eventually a veteran free agent could be signed, but it isn’t expected soon.

Fisher won five championships with the Los Angeles Lakers and Martin is a former All-Star known for his defensive prowess, which could shore up the two biggest needs on this team — defense and bench production. But Martin turns 35 next month, has a history of knee problems and a reputation as a volatile presence in a locker room.

Right now, however, he’s willing to play for anyone who will call.

“If someone calls me tomorrow, I don’t care who it is, whether it’s losing or winning at this point,” Martin told Yahoo! Sports earlier this month. “If someone calls me tomorrow and wants me to come in, I’m going.”

Scott joked after practice on Friday he wasn’t addressing the team’s woeful bench because he’s too busy addressing the defense — and rightly so. Scott promised to deliver two defensive practices in advance of tonight’s home game against the Dallas Mavericks and he delivered. He was pleased with the defensive intensity for a second consecutive day. Now he hopes it translates onto the court since the Cavs are allowing opponents to make more than half of their shots.

But the bench issue still has to be addressed, whether from the inside or outside. Scott reiterated Friday he’s patient at times, but also impatient. Guys on the roster have to start producing soon or the Cavs might be forced to look at some of the remaining veterans.

“Do I think the bench can play better? Yes,” Scott said. “If there’s a guy out there who we think can help us, we should definitely pursue that guy. I want to win. I want to be competitive every single night.”

Scott is keeping Omri Casspi in his rotation at least through the weekend and leaving C.J. Miles out of it. Miles will eventually get another chance, perhaps sooner than later, but Scott wants to give Casspi a fair look while also giving Miles a few days to clear his head after a brutal start.

Miles is shooting 23 percent and hasn’t yet gone to the foul line. His defense has been sporadic at best.

Miles said the second unit doesn’t have dynamic playmakers like Kyrie Irving and Dion Waiters, so they must be even more precise in their sets both offensively and defensively.

“We don’t have two guys with the ball at all times who can make a play for themselves and everybody else,” Miles said. “So everything can’t break down. We have to be able to run more sets, run the floor and we have to defend better than the first group does.”

Miles said the second unit cranked up the defensive intensity in practice to give the starters a better look and to adjust to playing at a more frenetic pace. The plan is for that to carry over into games, although that has yet to be determined.

“We lack a little size, especially while Tyler was out,” Miles said. “We have to know who we are and what we’re going to be. That’s been the big focus the last few practices: Knowing how to play. We’ve been in there pressuring the heck out of these guys trying to get used to the mentality that when we step on the floor, we’re going to get up and guard guys, we’re going to push guys. We’re not going to play as many minutes, so we shouldn’t have to worry about getting tired.”

If they do get tired, or if Cavs officials get tired of waiting, there are plenty of veteran free agents waiting for the phone to ring.

Fast breaks

As expected, Tyler Zeller was cleared to return to the court. Tonight’s game against the Mavericks will be his first in 12 days since suffering a concussion and fractured cheekbone in a victory at the Los Angeles Clippers. That was the last time the Cavs won a game. … Luke Harangody had arthroscopic surgery on his right knee and is expected to miss about six weeks. Harangody initially injured the knee in practice about a week ago. He rested it, then tried playing through it, but Scott said the pain was so bad Harangody struggled to get up and down steps. The Cavs cannot call anyone up from the Development League to replace him without removing Harangody — or someone else — from their 15-man roster.

 

[Fursdon]

Had to share, I imagine some have seen it :

http://www.fearthesword.com/2012/11/15/3651734/the-cavs-bench-is-so-bad

(Some of the comments at the bottom are the best)

There are a lot of reasons to be happy if you're a Cavaliers fan. Kyrie Irving looks astounding. Anderson Varejao is having the best start to a season ever. Dion Waiters is playing like a fourth overall pick should be playing. But man, that bench. Dear God, that bench...

The Cavaliers bench is bad. How bad are they you ask? Well, let's break it down, Yo Momma style:

The Cavs bench is so bad, I'm jealous of the Charlotte Bobcats' depth.
The Cavs bench is so bad, Byron Scott doesn't sub them in, the bench physically rejects them every 10 minutes.
The Cavs bench is so bad, I'd rather stick a hanger on the stove, let it sit there for like a half hour, take it off and stab it in my tongue slow like ssssssssss than watch the second quarter of a Cavs game.
The Cavs bench is so bad, they scored six points against the Nets and two of those points were off a goaltend from Reggie Evans. Wait, this one actually happened.
The Cavs bench is so bad, they actually play Luke Walton.
Donald Sloan is like a nerdy kid who's really into anime, he has no idea how to score.
Omri Casspi is so bad, he's on the All-Star Ballot. Wait, what?!
Samardo Samuels is so fat, when he goes to a restaurant, he sits down, looks at the menu and says ‘ok'. I'm sorry, Samardo Samuels WAS so fat, when he goes to a restaurant, he sits down, looks at the menu and says ‘ok'. He's still pretty bad at basketball.
Jon Leuer's jumpshot is so ugly, it has it's own Craiglist Personals ad.
C.J. Miles is so bad, he's scored only five more points than he has turnovers and personal fouls combined. Really.
The Cavs bench is so foul, I thought I heard them quack. That one's a pun on the word ‘fowl', you guys.
The Cavs bench is so shallow, they make Donald Trump look deep.
The Cavs bench is so poor, Mitt Romney would openly mock them at a fundraiser.
The Cavs bench is so un-athletic, they wouldn't be able to pass the Presidential Fitness Test. Remember that from back in grade school? Flexed arm hang, y'all.
The Cavs bench is so talentless, they make Kim Kardashian look like Bruce Springsteen in comparison.
The Cavs bench is like the Ark of the Covenant, one quick look and your face will melt off in horror.
The Cavs bench is like Freddy Krueger, they'll haunt you dreams and turn your days into waking nightmares.
The Cavs bench is like pomegranates, they suck. Yeah, I hate pomegranates, come at me, bro.
The Cavs bench is like the movie John Carter, it's a multi-million dollar disaster of historic proportions.
The Cavs bench is like Rick Santorum's Presidential campaign, it would be funny if it wasn't so horrifying and scary.

 

[Jon]

I really hate to say it (because I just wasted 30 minutes on this crap), but why do you even care?

That's a shame. I felt you made an assumption that the guys we drafted are not below average by NBA standards - and pointed it out and gave you the reason (lack of experience). End of story.

 

[mds]

Had to share, I imagine some have seen it :

http://www.fearthesword.com/2012/11/15/3651734/the-cavs-bench-is-so-bad

(Some of the comments at the bottom are the best)

The comments are better than the article, but I did like "The Cavs bench is so poor, Mitt Romney would openly mock them at a fundraiser."

 

[rabman_gold]

That's a shame. I felt you made an assumption that the guys we drafted are not below average by NBA standards - and pointed it out and gave you the reason (lack of experience). End of story.

You probably are right that I made this assumption. If that's so, it's my bad.

But that does not however change my assumption that the four guys we drafted are not below-average. There's plenty of stats that I looked at that support my case, it's really hard to say that they make the team worse. The bench players, on the other hand, have the same amount of experience in the league.

So the lack of experience argument is kind of moot if you ask me.

You can respond to this if you want, but I feel I made my point. Hope we don't need to go further into this.

 

[Rich]

So I guess we just have to go small when the bench comes in. Play Pargo, Gibson, and then either Dion or Kyrie. It's sad but I see no other option. Miles and Casspi are just THAT bad. Consistently. Can't keep putting them in a game even if it means playing a small and likely bad back court.