The Brian Hoyer thread...

[killerkev369]

As an Ignatius guy, I have to wish Hoyer the best moving forward. I don't see him lasting here beyond the year.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Ad hominem attacks make for bad writing and unconvincing discussion.

The first trimester of the season saw Hoyer outplaying expectations. It was a feel good story of an outstanding offensive line helping no-name skill position players all have the best seasons of their careers.

The second trimester was defined by key injuries and uneven play from Hoyer. I'm an optimist, I hoped he would right the ship. The leaders in the locker room had faith in him and the division is right there for the taking for the first time in about two decades. Obviously there are Manziel supporters somewhere if he is being groomed for the future. They get the trial they wanted, I think the cost of a legit playoff run is a dangerous price for it.

I had more faith in Hoyer figuring it out with some weapons returning in this final trimester. If defenses prepare for Manziel, the result may look more like preseason Johnny Football than "Surprise, remember me?" Johnny.

From this point forward, Manziel is making his own bed with plenty of eyes on him. I am as hopeful as anyone else he is ready... I just have my doubts.

 

[brownindian]

The good thing is both the Ravens and the Steelers also lost - So the gap is not so bad. Plus this could be the last easy game for the Bengals coming up next is Steelers then Browns then Broncos - Not easy!! If we can win the rest of our schedule we are still in there - Which means starting with Hoyer as he has had the most reps. The last few games we saw Hoyer trying to force things to make something happen rather than trying to be the QB that takes what the defense gives you. HE needs to get out of that mindset and try to be the good Brian 'Condom' Hoyer and go safety first and not throw dangerously.

 

[dirtywax]

I was really hoping could succeed here.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Really wish he was going to work out, but it was clear as day that Hoyer was done.

Season is nearly over anyway, see what we have with Manziel and if we need to draft a QB high again next year.

 

[brownindian]

Really wish he was going to work out, but it was clear as day that Hoyer was done.

Season is nearly over anyway, see what we have with Manziel and if we need to draft a QB high again next year.

We are still in the hunt. It is silly to start Manziel now and use these few games to evaluate him. It neither does him nor us any good - esp if we go on to lose the next 3 or 4 with Manziel. Also I dont think there is any difference maker in next years QB class. Makes more sense to let Johnny have an entire season under him.

 

[BooyaCS]

The good thing is both the Ravens and the Steelers also lost - So the gap is not so bad. Plus this could be the last easy game for the Bengals coming up next is Steelers then Browns then Broncos - Not easy!! If we can win the rest of our schedule we are still in there - Which means starting with Hoyer as he has had the most reps. The last few games we saw Hoyer trying to force things to make something happen rather than trying to be the QB that takes what the defense gives you. HE needs to get out of that mindset and try to be the good Brian 'Condom' Hoyer and go safety first and not throw dangerously.

I firmly believe that Hoyer does not give you the best chance to win games. He isn't effective without a running game. Again this was the same as the previous weeks. Stack 8 in the box take away the run and dare Hoyer to throw to beat you.

Jacksonville gave the blueprint to beating Hoyer, The Bucs and Raiders weren't good enough to execute it. Our defense played out of their mind vs Cinci. The rest of the teams since that time have played Hoyer well. The Falcons just didn't have the defense to win that game.

 

[BooyaCS]

We are still in the hunt. It is silly to start Manziel now and use these few games to evaluate him. It neither does him nor us any good - esp if we go on to lose the next 3 or 4 with Manziel. Also I dont think there is any difference maker in next years QB class. Makes more sense to let Johnny have an entire season under him.

Same mentality that the Indians use all the time. Well we can only aford the mediocre players so be happy with it.

At this point Hoyer doesn't give you the best chance to win. They have won in spite of Hoyer since the Jacksonville game.

 

[el_capitan]

We are still in the hunt. It is silly to start Manziel now and use these few games to evaluate him. It neither does him nor us any good - esp if we go on to lose the next 3 or 4 with Manziel. Also I dont think there is any difference maker in next years QB class. Makes more sense to let Johnny have an entire season under him.

If we lose the next 3 or 4 with Manziel, we were probably going to lose those with Hoyer also.

 

[brownindian]

I firmly believe that Hoyer does not give you the best chance to win games. He isn't effective without a running game. Again this was the same as the previous weeks. Stack 8 in the box take away the run and dare Hoyer to throw to beat you.

Jacksonville gave the blueprint to beating Hoyer, The Bucs and Raiders weren't good enough to execute it. Our defense played out of their mind vs Cinci. The rest of the teams since that time have played Hoyer well. The Falcons just didn't have the defense to win that game.

Putting Manziel out there instead of Hoyer is more risky cos

1. Manziel hasn't had enough reps with first team and one week is not going to change it. IT will take him a while to get into rhythm with our WRs. Time that we do not have.

2. As Maximus said in another thread - There is a huge bulls eye on Manziels back and everybody is gunning for him. Which means every running play that he is involved in (which will be a lot cos you cant switch to a pocket passer in a jiffy) there is a higher element of risk. Esp This year with all the Manziel talk. Next year with an entire offseason he might work wonders but now we are just throwing him to the wolves.

3. When we are in playoff hunt putting a Rookie QB and expecting him to give you a spark is just added pressure on the rookie. Trial by Fire is not how we should evaluate.

4. Hoyer has shown initially that when he can be good - He can be very safe and effective. It is only when he forces himself to do something that he shits the bed. Maybe Hoyer can become good again next week. He is an up/down QB.

 

[brownindian]

Same mentality that the Indians use all the time. Well we can only aford the mediocre players so be happy with it.

At this point Hoyer doesn't give you the best chance to win. They have won in spite of Hoyer since the Jacksonville game.

All i am saying is it is unfair on Manziel. Bortles does not have this pressure, Bridgewater does not have this pressure. We are close to getting to playoffs and there is added pressure. Not the ideal time to see if he can handle it or if he cracks under pressure.

 

[BooyaCS]

Putting Manziel out there instead of Hoyer is more risky cos

1. Manziel hasn't had enough reps with first team and one week is not going to change it. IT will take him a while to get into rhythm with our WRs. Time that we do not have.

2. As Maximus said in another thread - There is a huge bulls eye on Manziels back and everybody is gunning for him. Which means every running play that he is involved in (which will be a lot cos you cant switch to a pocket passer in a jiffy) there is a higher element of risk. Esp This year with all the Manziel talk. Next year with an entire offseason he might work wonders but now we are just throwing him to the wolves.

3. When we are in playoff hunt putting a Rookie QB and expecting him to give you a spark is just added pressure on the rookie. Trial by Fire is not how we should evaluate.

4. Hoyer has shown initially that when he can be good - He can be very safe and effective. It is only when he forces himself to do something that he shits the bed. Maybe Hoyer can become good again next week. He is an up/down QB.

1.) Who cares you get reps and better by playing.

2.) Then why draft a player if you are afraid of what they can do?

3.) Yes we are in the playoff hunt and I have concluded (after the jacksonville game) we won't make the playoffs with Hoyer. Heck we won't win another game starting Hoyer.

4.) Hoyer has never been effective when teams took away his running game. Up to the Jacksonville game he had 6 TD passes and 1 Interception. Since 4 TDs and 7 interceptions. He doesn't give you the best chance to win anymore. Does Manziel? I don't know but I know Hoyer doesn't.

 

[brownindian]

If we lose the next 3 or 4 with Manziel, we were probably going to lose those with Hoyer also.

And if we do lose the next 2 with Hoyer and are out of the playoff race then we know that Hoyer can be nothing more than a backup and next year we can start the Manziel era. Instead, if we lose the next 3 with Manziel then we will have some fans that will say that Hoyer could have won those games and some fans who will say that Manziel did not have enough time to gel with this team. So we will be back next year with a QB controversy again and also if some people have it their way we may draft a new 3rd QB and make it crazier.

How about we go by system of elimination?

 

[AZ_]

Same mentality that the Indians use all the time. Well we can only aford the mediocre players so be happy with it.

 

[Ruken]

1.) Who cares you get reps and better by playing.

2.) Then why draft a player if you are afraid of what they can do?

3.) Yes we are in the playoff hunt and I have concluded (after the jacksonville game) we won't make the playoffs with Hoyer. Heck we won't win another game starting Hoyer.

4.) Hoyer has never been effective when teams took away his running game. Up to the Jacksonville game he had 6 TD passes and 1 Interception. Since 4 TDs and 7 interceptions. He doesn't give you the best chance to win anymore. Does Manziel? I don't know but I know Hoyer doesn't.

What he is getting at is breaking a rookie qb by playing him too early in bad circumstances. Manziel has shown flashes of pure talent but it is no secrety he had to catch up maturity wise and mentally.