The Brian Hoyer thread...

[The Oi]

How about if we leave it at...Hoyer has played the most impressive stretch of four consecutive games since the Browns came back into the league. AND we're all sort of depressed/hopeful/excited about it?

 

[AZ_]

The "since we came back into the league" thing is not an acceptable metric for judging the ultimate goal of finding the long-term starter at the QB position.

Until you have a guy you're confident can be among the best in the league year in and year out, the search should never stop. It's the single most important position in the league and needs to be treated as such.

Where people think I'm slamming Hoyer is inferring that such a theory means I'm not excited and relieved that Hoyer is performing the way he is. He's been MORE than I personally expected through the first five weeks of the season and would like to see that continue.

It's absolutely valid to contest that his long-term prospects as an elite level player in the NFL are probably not that good. Should he keep playing the way he has through the first five weeks, perhaps that prospect could become less and less negative.

But it's hard to imagine Hoyer playing much better than he has, and even at this point he's just scraping the "above average" category almost across the board compared to other QBs.

 

[Binkster]

The "since we came back into the league" thing is not an acceptable metric for judging the ultimate goal of finding the long-term starter at the QB position.

Until you have a guy you're confident can be among the best in the league year in and year out, the search should never stop. It's the single most important position in the league and needs to be treated as such.

Where people think I'm slamming Hoyer is inferring that such a theory means I'm not excited and relieved that Hoyer is performing the way he is. He's been MORE than I personally expected through the first five weeks of the season and would like to see that continue.

It's absolutely valid to contest that his long-term prospects as an elite level player in the NFL are probably not that good. Should he keep playing the way he has through the first five weeks, perhaps that prospect could become less and less negative.

But it's hard to imagine Hoyer playing much better than he has, and even at this point he's just scraping the "above average" category almost across the board compared to other QBs.

Mr. "above average" is spearheading the 11th best offense in the NFL. The running game is undoubtedly good, but the passing game's effectiveness should not be in question.

The fact that the individual receiving stats are scattered across the board each week says it all: the corps lacks a consistent leader. Are they better than expected? Sure. But Hoyer is working magic without Gordon all while Cameron shitting the bed due to injury.

If he had luxury of throwing to the NFL's receiving leader, what would his numbers say?

 

[Binkster]

Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Tony Romo, Eli Manning, Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson (30th ), and Alex Smith (31st) - just names... That rank below Hoyer's passing offense.

5 of those guys have been to Super Bowls, if you didn't pick up on that...

 

[godfather]

Russell Wilson would be irrelevant if he was the QB of the Browns, you guys know it too. He's a GREAT game manager, he's not a GREAT QB! He's very good, don't get me wrong. He's good, not great.

Yes, he is overrated, when we have analysts, and fans, already thinking he's elite. Hell, some think he's seriously better than Andrew Luck. That's where I must get off the Wilson hype, and do it fast.

Wilson's passing numbers in 4 games, 191 yards, 201 yards, 258 yards, and 201 yards. How does that not spell, GAME MANAGER!

He's not asked to win games, just to not screw it up. The one game where Philip Rivers was man enough to challenge Seattle, and shredded them to pieces, what did Wilson do? Nothing!

He can't go toe-to-toe, and just flat out beat the best QB's with his arm. Don't tell me he beat Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, or Tom Brady. His defense beat those guys.

I don't think it's asinine at all, to suggest Hoyer is doing more than Wilson is. More is needed from Hoyer right now, if we have any shot of winning. Wilson is playing great football, don't get me wrong, but what is needed from him is limited. His defense is going to go out there and shred most QB's up. That makes your job a hell of a lot easier.

He's not a great QB. He's not elite. Wilson is very good, that gets glorified by the perfect pieces around him.

If he was drafted by the Browns, no one would be talking about him.

 

[Randolphkeys]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000407985/article/qb-index-is-brian-hoyer-the-real-deal

Click on the above hyperlink, I tried to copy the most important info below...

QB Index: Is Brian Hoyer the real deal?

Gregg Rosenthal
Around The NFL Editor

Brian Hoyer makes a handful of handful of throws each week that make you believe. He is slowly melting the icicles that have built up around every Browns fan's heart, a fan who has grown inured to hope, always expecting pain around the corner.

Hoyer is not as good as his numbers suggest. He's on pace for more than 4,000 passing yards, 24 touchdowns and four interceptions. He is this year's Nick Foles, a surprisingly solid starter in the right offense that looks better in the box score than on the field. But there are signs that Hoyer is making progress.

Sunday's performance in Tennessee was his best of the season, and his Week 3 effort against Baltimore was his cleanest game before that. Like Andy Dalton, Hoyer is not quite consistently accurate enough to be an ideal "game manager." Unlike Dalton, Hoyer makes a few plays each week that truly surprise.

Yes, Brian Hoyer can be fun to watch. He is aggressive and can pull off some low-percentage throws. Most of of Hoyer's incompletions in Tennessee came on tipped passes or miscommunications with his receivers, often Andrew Hawkins.
It's remarkable that the Browns are fourth on offense in Football Outsiders' DVOA rankings, and Hoyer ranks in the NFL's top 10 in net yards per attempt. Taylor Gabriel is Hoyer's best deep threat, and the team just has six catches from Jordan Cameron. In short: Offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan deserves a raise.

Ben Roethlisberger famously has an 18-1 record against Cleveland, but it's not so crazy that the Browns are slightly favored against Pittsburgh on Sunday. This Steelers' defense is a below-average group, and Hoyer is playing well enough to take advantage. Hoyer turning Johnny Football into a non-story is one of the upsets of this season.

 

[Binkster]

Hoyer is not as good as his numbers suggest. He's on pace for more than 4,000 passing yards, 24 touchdowns and four interceptions. He is this year's Nick Foles, a surprisingly solid starter in the right offense that looks better in the box score than on the field. But there are signs that Hoyer is making progress.

Solid, but not as good as his numbers. Then backs up his theory with more generalized babble and very little concrete evidence. Even b00bie puts together a better argument than that.

 

[AZ_]

Mr. "above average" is spearheading the 11th best offense in the NFL. The running game is undoubtedly good, but the passing game's effectiveness should not be in question.

The fact that the individual receiving stats are scattered across the board each week says it all: the corps lacks a consistent leader. Are they better than expected? Sure. But Hoyer is working magic without Gordon all while Cameron shitting the bed due to injury.

If he had luxury of throwing to the NFL's receiving leader, what would his numbers say?

Receiver stats being scattered doesn't mean much to me at all, all of the guys have been pretty damn effective running routes and catching the football. He can't ask for much more than that.

I'd venture to guess adding JG to this team maybe makes his numbers tick up a bit, but that's just spreading out targets to a receiver better than the others. I can't imagine his numbers would be elite simply by adding Gordon, that equation doesn't make much sense unless he's going to throw the ball alot more.

 

[The Oi]

The "since we came back into the league" thing is not an acceptable metric for judging the ultimate goal of finding the long-term starter at the QB position.

My interest in this whole topic completely dies after what you say here. You're 100% right about that.

The issue here is that it's 4 games plus last season so we'd be insane to think we know that the Browns have in him. I just have zero interest in conjecture and projections in sports. I'm far more interested in just watching teams play and be passively entertained by them.

I'm just sick of seeing the discussion otherwise. That said, of course I could just stop viewing this thread...

 

[godfather]

I stand by what I say, I don't think there are 5 QB's in the NFL, clearly playing better football than Brian Hoyer at this moment.

Hoyer hasn't been perfect, sure he has deficiencies, but no one can seriously argue with the job he's doing thus far. Will he continue to play at this rate? Probably not, but I do think he's good enough to be a starter for us going forward though.

Even the games we got beat, we were in it because of him. Our defense has got to step it up.

 

[The Oi]

I stand by what I say, I don't think there are 5 QB's in the NFL, clearly playing better football than Brian Hoyer at this moment.

Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, Russ Wilson, Drew Brees, Jay Cutler, Eli Manning. Close with Romo and Roethlisberger.

So there's probably around 10. Which of those guys do you think haven't been better than Hoyer?

 

[AZ_]

I just have zero interest in conjecture and projections in sports.

I'd say this too if I was as terrible as you are in projecting sports.

 

[godfather]

Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Philip Rivers, Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, Russ Wilson, Drew Brees, Jay Cutler, Eli Manning. Close with Romo.

So there's probably 10.

Those guys are all CLEARLY playing better than Hoyer? Jay Cutler? What? He's been absolutely garbage, ready to be benched arguably. I know Cutler's numbers look impressive, but trust me, he blows. I've watched quite a few Bears games so far, and he single handily cost them the Packers game. I flat out rather have Hoyer, any day, over Jay Cutler.

Brees has been awful. No way he's played better, the guy is a turnover machine.

I'd say Peyton, Rodgers, and Rivers have CLEARLY played better than Hoyer thus far. Romo, Wilson, Luck, and Eli Manning it's more subjective.

I find it odd, we have a hard time giving any props to any QB we have. lol

He's not better than these guys, he's just playing some damn good football right now. And this is coming from a HUGE Hoyer doubter, too.

 

[The Oi]

I'd say this too if I was as terrible as you are in projecting sports.

I've proven tremendous at it. Can't think of anything, at least within the last three months or so I've been wrong about.

 

[The Oi]

Those guys are all CLEARLY playing better than Hoyer? Jay Cutler? What? He's been absolutely garbage, ready to be benched arguably. Brees has been awful. No way he's played better, the guy is a turnover machine.

I'd say Peyton, Rodgers, and Rivers have CLEARLY played better than Hoyer thus far. Romo, Wilson, Luck, Manning it's more subjective.

I find it odd, we have a hard time giving any props to any QB we have. lol

He's not better than these guys, he's just playing some damn good football right now. And this is coming from a HUGE Hoyer doubter, too.

What are you using to measure these guys? Am I not allowed to use statistics to be objective? Because statistically, every single one of those guys have Hoyer, with the exception of turnovers. And I picked all guys who have similar records as well.

Not sure what you're looking for?

I've given Hoyer plenty of props. Really like him.