The Official MMA Thread

[Wolfman]

Kimbo looked old, inexperienced and he was lucky he "popped" the dudes ear. Really didn't need to see that.

 

[ChicagoCavFan]

They called those 1st two fights too early. Kinda sucked. It seemed to me that the ear popping was what they were waiting for to call it. Couldn't that have been drained before the fight? It was almost a built-in excuse to end the fight. It was bound to get hit.

Gotta say, it was a good fight for a heavyweight bout.

 

[MattyJames]

EliteXC is bush league.

That was almost exactly what i thought, but hoped would'nt happen. 2nd class(less) fighters in a 3rd class organization. Actually, i would say they are a 4th class organization...

UFC
Dream
WEC (UFC Minor league)
EliteXC


The fights were fairly competitive for the most part...It was just SO freaking amateurish. The only fight that even resembled a "good" mma fight was the Lawler/Smith bout. Both sort of rejects from the UFC. Every loss on lawler's record is when he comes into the UFC to fight and gets beat up. Same with Scott Smith. He lost in the first round of TUF4, Won the light heavyweight belt in the WEC and was choked out both times coming back up to UFC. Both looked very strong on Saturday though. I was pissed they stopped it because of the incidental finger in the eye. Just more money for that weasel Gary Shaw when they do it again in August on Saturday Night Fights 2. Kimbo was garbage. He was exposed and even people Ive tralked to that don't even watch the sport said that he looked raw. He should fight that Brett Rogers guy who won the first fight of the night. That would be a pretty good fight. Ive heard the argument that it doesnt matter if they are the best fighters as long as its a good fight but come'on. Everything from the Fireworks, To the ring Entrances, The entourages and the the commentating was cheesy. The fights themselves were somewhat enjoyable but over all i give the whole presentation a solid D

Last night on Versus was WEC 34. Same type of broadcast.5 fights in a 2 hr. time slot except much more professional and the fights were much more competitive. In the second bout of the night, Mark Munoz knocked Chuck Grigsby into next month. If you ever wonder why or think that referee's step in too early, Check that fight out. You will WISH that the ref got there earlier. Munoz probably got in 4 or 5 fully extended punches AFTER Grigsby was already sleeping. All of the fights were good (Expect the opener SUPER BORING) and the main even didnt disappoint. I thought for sure that Faber would knock Pulver out but that guy is tough. He took a hell of a beating for 5 rounds. If anyone missed this card and is interested in watching it, I'm sure it will be re-aired 97486872 times in the next month on Versus.

 

[RuanuLaw]

The UFC/MMA sucks these days. The reason being that everybody and their mothers caught on to the idea that if you CAN'T beat your opponents like a man, MAKE THEM TAP OUT.

In the beginning UFC and MMA in general was fun to watch because of the brutality and fun factor. People were throwing kicks to faces, punches, and everything in between even when it went to the ground. Meaning that even when it went on the ground people were still were going crazy like on their feet. Made it fun to watch either way. Now...

Now its all about let me spear you right away, wrestle/roll with you for about 3 minutes on the ground, and then one of us is going to grab the other in a bad spot and make the other tap out. GAY! GAY GAY GAY!!!

I am sorry but this is why Kimbo is such a breath of fresh air for beginning/casual fans like me. Kimbo likes to keep it on his feet, avoid that wrestle/roll, and just try to KO you either on your feet, or on the ground after he just hit you with a devastating uppercutt.

Seriously, if you enjoy watching men rolling in a cage and hugging each other like they just landed on a cheap hooker, then UFC is for you.

People forget what MMA used to be about, and what made it so much fun. It was supposed to be kickboxing. People wanted that element of brutality that boxing provided, but also let them loose and do whatever they wanted without the rules of boxing. Then came the restrictions. Then came the semi-pro wrestlers, and then came the Brazilian Jujitsuers, and NOW,,,well now you just have that gay grapple/roll/UFC that is a representation of MMA is currently all about. GAY! I want to go back to the old days. And Kimbo Slice brings us back to the old days with his "off the ground" style.

 

[Wolfman]

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[MattyJames]

I could'nt disagree with you more. You obviously don't watch very much MMA or you would'nt feel this way.

The UFC/MMA sucks these days. The reason being that everybody and their mothers caught on to the idea that if you CAN'T beat your opponents like a man, MAKE THEM TAP OUT.

Mixed Martial Arts is fighting in the purist form. Beat your opponent by any means necessary(Within the rules). Your statement is like saying "I hate NBA because all they do is dunk. I real basketball player would out shoot his opponent" There are so many facets to fighting. You have to be solid in ALL forms of fighting. How is making an opponent Tapout NOT beating them like a man? I think its the opposite. You are making them submit to you. You are making them say "I give up, It hurts to bad and I can't take it" That is worse than knocking someone out. I LOVE big knockouts and most fights still end in them in the UFC and WEC. You just have too be more rounded these days because nowadays, people have more means to become better fighters and fighters are flat out better in this day and age.

In the beginning UFC and MMA in general was fun to watch because of the brutality and fun factor. People were throwing kicks to faces, punches, and everything in between even when it went to the ground. Meaning that even when it went on the ground people were still were going crazy like on their feet. Made it fun to watch either way. Now...

Now its all about let me spear you right away, wrestle/roll with you for about 3 minutes on the ground, and then one of us is going to grab the other in a bad spot and make the other tap out. GAY! GAY GAY GAY!!!

There is so much wrong with this, I don't even know where to start. Not trying to act like a know it all because i'm certainly not but these comments couldnt be further from the truth. UFC, Dream, IFL,WEC and all of the other leagues have got the most brutal fighters and fights in the world. Fights are more barbaric than ever these days because fighters have more experience and have evolved too endure more. I have seen some of the biggest bloodbaths in MMA that I have ever seen in the past year. Grappling is probably the most important factor to fighting because it sets you up for ground and pound.(How MOST fighters lose). You know, Like Kimbo got his face caved in for 2 minutes straight and was pretty much out cold when the ref saved the money tickets ass Saturday night. As far as submissions go, If you don't want me to snap your f'ing arm in two pieces, learn how to protect yourself and fight. That's part of brawling my friend.

I am sorry but this is why Kimbo is such a breath of fresh air for beginning/casual fans like me. Kimbo likes to keep it on his feet, avoid that wrestle/roll, and just try to KO you either on your feet, or on the ground after he just hit you with a devastating uppercutt.

I'm sorry but Kimbo is a bum. He couldn't stand with 75% of the elite Heavyweights. He was saved in his fight Saturday. he is slow, his chin is questionable and his power is shoddy. He would be knocked out by elite fighters 100 pounds smaller then him. Most fighters like to stay on their feet. That's nothing fresh. Sooner than later, he will have to fight someone with just a decent game and Kimbo will be knocked out (Not submitted) Bank on it.

Seriously, if you enjoy watching men rolling in a cage and hugging each other like they just landed on a cheap hooker, then UFC is for you.

People forget what MMA used to be about, and what made it so much fun. It was supposed to be kickboxing. People wanted that element of brutality that boxing provided, but also let them loose and do whatever they wanted without the rules of boxing. Then came the restrictions. Then came the semi-pro wrestlers, and then came the Brazilian Jujitsuers, and NOW,,,well now you just have that gay grapple/roll/UFC that is a representation of MMA is currently all about. GAY! I want to go back to the old days. And Kimbo Slice brings us back to the old days with his "off the ground" style.

Please do us both a favor and watch just 1 UFC or WEC event and come back to this thread after doing so, so i can hear your opinion then. In UFC 84(Last week) 4 of the 5 main fights ended in Knockouts. Last night at WEC 34, 4 of the 5 main fights also ended in Knockout. All but the final championship fight that was 5 rounds of nothing but standing and slugging.

I always appreciate others opinions and respect them but you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[MattyJames]

An entertaining disaster
By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
12 hours, 18 minutes ago


Many long-time mixed martial arts fans think Saturday’s Kimbo Slice fight on CBS was fixed because, well, it looked exactly like what they think a fixed fight would look like.

Personally, I don’t think it was rigged, if only because it worked. Kimbo, the obvious beneficiary since the entire promotion hinges on his success, won. For Elite XC to purposely deliver this desirable result would display a level of competency not seen in any other part of its amateur hour production.

But that’s just me. In the days after the first ever network televised card, everyone seems to have an opinion.

It generally splits into two groups.

Moderate to hardcore fans saw it as an abomination of their sport; CBS and Elite XC combining to produce a circus act headlined by an overhyped Kimbo that set the perception of MMA back a decade.

New and casual fans saw it as great entertainment, especially considering it was on late Saturday night where the expectations of programming aren’t real high, although some viewers undoubtedly were.

Both sides are correct; it’s simply a matter of perspective.

If you’re a fan of MMA, then what Elite XC trotted out as a main event was mostly an absurd exhibition. It’s like tuning in for the NBA Finals and finding the And 1 Mixtape Tour – only with announcers pretending Hot Sauce is a better player than Kobe Bryant.

This was entirely predictable. Any promotion that was going to use Kimbo Slice as its main event clearly cared nothing about the quality or growth of the sport. It was just grabbing cheap viewers. If that meant sending a mostly unskilled street fighting sensation against a guy who was such a tomato can he should have dressed in red, then so be it.

Of course, the tomato can, James “Colossus” Thompson, almost won. At least, until the fight got stopped, Kimbo was declared the winner and MMA message boards almost collapsed in fury.

But if you didn’t know, or care, then you didn’t know or care. This was better than reruns of “Walker, Texas Ranger.”

What the main event lacked in quality it made up for in entertainment, unintentional or not. Here are my four favorite absurdly hysterical moments of the Kimbo-Colossus fight.

4. When the fight was called, Colossus, the loser, tried to fight the ref for unfairly ending it. Kimbo, the winner, collapsed in exhaustion as many in the once pro-Kimbo crowd in Newark, N.J., turned on their guy. Not exactly a victory lap.

3. The CBS announcing crew’s endless hyperbole reaching its pinnacle when one of them compared Kimbo to Tiger Woods.

This would be applicable if Tiger had gained fame hitting trick shots in putt putt and then was invited to a second rate club championship which CBS was conned into televising. He then shot a final round 124, after which he was declared the winner anyway.

2. The judges. Kimbo spent most of the second round getting his skull hit and thanking the heavens that Colossus could only manage weak punches and elbows. Anyone else and this ends ugly. Even with Colossus, the fight could have been called (ha) in this undeniably terrible round for Kimbo.

Naturally, one of the “impartial judges” scored the round in his favor anyway. If this had gone to decision, is there any doubt at least one of the judges would have scored the three-round fight for Kimbo, five rounds to zero?

1. The Ear. What, you’ve seen an ear like that before? When everyone predicted this would be a freak show, no one thought the Colossus would take it to heart. His cauliflower ear was massive, this huge ball of blood and puss hanging off his head.

Ah, didn’t anyone think to mention he might want to drain that thing before Kimbo whacks him upside the head and makes it explode? Which, of course, happened.

Pre-fight, as the cameras zoomed in on that monstrosity everyone watching was horrified, fascinated or laughing uncontrollably. It was something out of a summer comedy; I kept expecting Verne Troyer to appear in the scene. CBS’s Gus Johnson declared it an “alien life form.”

This was the stuff that pained longtime fans. For the average person just looking for something to watch, though, this train wreck was wildly entertaining. At the very least, it was memorable. Not everyone is concerned about the integrity of cage fighting.

It’s worth repeating that Kimbo Slice isn’t the problem. He may have a long way to go to be even a good MMA fighter, but he is an easy-to-root-for American original. He shouldn’t apologize for suddenly having a chance to make a bunch of money.

If out of the blue the New York Yankees called and said you could have Alex Rodriguez’s third base position (and contract), you’d take it. Then you’d spend every waking minute at the batting cage and taking grounders, all while walking around scared senseless that this was going to end badly (except for your bank account) when they realized you aren’t a major league ball player.

That’s what Kimbo looked like in the run up to this one. He’s training as hard as he can, but he has to know the truth. Fedor Emelianenko, the best heavyweight in the world, would toy with him. Every heavyweight and light heavyweight in the UFC would beat him handily. Even some middleweights, such as Anderson Silva, despite giving up 50-plus pounds, would take him. It’s just a matter of MMA being a lot more than a street brawl. He’s on their turf now.

Colossus has now lost seven of his last nine fights and he wasn’t enough of a stiff to assure Kimbo victory. Kimbo is fun, but reality is reality.

Still, it wasn’t Kimbo saying he was Tiger Woods. It wasn’t Kimbo who showed up with a racquetball in his ear, or hired the dancing girls or choreographed the WWE introductions.

As frustrating as this was for many who love the sport, I don’t buy the argument that the card was a big negative for MMA. Yes its credibility was hurt with old media and some skeptics, but many potential fans were exposed to it for the first time.

Some of them will stick around and discover the upper reaches of the sport. If Sunday’s WEC card highlighted by the Jens Pulver-Urijah Faber epic had been on CBS, then the sport would have shot into the stratosphere overnight. The same is true for any UFC production or, most likely, next month’s promising Affliction event.

If new fans watch those, soon they too will realize what first introduced them to the sport was mostly just an entertaining joke.

Now, if only CBS could realize it. Not since someone decided to make a television show about the Geico Cavemen has a network been sold such a bill of goods.

CBS tried to claim it was wary of MMA because of its old perception as “human cockfighting.” That hasn’t been a reality in over a decade, though. Naturally, they contracted an organization that played on that very stereotype and, in turn, furthered it.

If CBS would dump Elite XC but stick with MMA – finding a more suitable promotion to televise – they’d find the good overnight ratings it produced could build into a juggernaut over time.

Not by providing minor league fights long on unintentional comedy that insult hardcore fans, but by trusting the sport on its own merits.

If we could get that fixed, there’d be no complaints.

Link

For more critic and fan reaction to this and all things MMA, Check out mmajunkie.com

 

[Mac]

I agree with RLaw, for those that grew up watching the real UFC, the new style is very very lame at times. It still has its highlights and I enjoy watching it, but there way too much ground dry humping for me to follow it like I once did.

That's why I agree with Rlaw that seeing the potential of Kimbo was a great thing, but after watching that fight it is clear that he can not hang with the good MMA fighters.

Elite XC failed with the ref stoppages and their showing looking like a WWE event instead of an MMA fight.

 

[The Voice]

The UFC/MMA sucks these days. The reason being that everybody and their mothers caught on to the idea that if you CAN'T beat your opponents like a man, MAKE THEM TAP OUT.

Making them tap out is beating them like a man, it's making them quit. I wanna see you get tied up in a submission hold by matt hughes and then not quit.

In the beginning UFC and MMA in general was fun to watch because of the brutality and fun factor. People were throwing kicks to faces, punches, and everything in between even when it went to the ground. Meaning that even when it went on the ground people were still were going crazy like on their feet. Made it fun to watch either way. Now...

Now its all about let me spear you right away, wrestle/roll with you for about 3 minutes on the ground, and then one of us is going to grab the other in a bad spot and make the other tap out. GAY! GAY GAY GAY!!!

Depends what weight division you're watching. I find the Welterweight fun as hell to watch cause the guys are so quick. I hate watching people just punch all day cause they're so slow.

I am sorry but this is why Kimbo is such a breath of fresh air for beginning/casual fans like me. Kimbo likes to keep it on his feet, avoid that wrestle/roll, and just try to KO you either on your feet, or on the ground after he just hit you with a devastating uppercutt.

So you like repetativeness is what you're saying. BORING

Seriously, if you enjoy watching men rolling in a cage and hugging each other like they just landed on a cheap hooker, then UFC is for you.

People forget what MMA used to be about, and what made it so much fun. It was supposed to be kickboxing. People wanted that element of brutality that boxing provided, but also let them loose and do whatever they wanted without the rules of boxing. Then came the restrictions. Then came the semi-pro wrestlers, and then came the Brazilian Jujitsuers, and NOW,,,well now you just have that gay grapple/roll/UFC that is a representation of MMA is currently all about. GAY! I want to go back to the old days. And Kimbo Slice brings us back to the old days with his "off the ground" style.

If you want to see off the ground style, then why the hell are you watching MIXED Martial Arts? It has the word "mixed" for a reason. If you wanna see stand around punch punch uppercut, jab; Watch boxing!

Tyson had the wrong people around him, that's what happened to the best boxer ever.

WHo knows who Kimbo has around him, his buddy is the owner of realitykings.com I think, so having a porn guy as one of your main guys does not bode well.

Who cares, Kimbo aint anybody. He isn't even close to what Tyson was.

 

[CBBI]

You know, when I first watched the show, I felt like Kimbo had been exposed as a fraud and as a weak fighter.

However, now that I've had two days to sit on these thoughts, I've come to the conclusion that isn't the case at all.

Kimbo's only had 3 professional MMA fights. He's only been training MMA for a little over a year. His opponent, James Thompson, is not an elite fighter by any means, but he had 23 professional fights coming into the Kimbo fight. Thompson fought several times at the highest level of the sport (Pride) and also had some very solid wins over the likes of Severn, Frye, and a really excellent win over Yoshida.

After re-watching the fight, I thought Kimbo looked good all things considered. He dominated the standup exchanges. He badly rocked Thompson several times and he showed some solid escape techniques on the ground against an opponent who was hell-bent on taking him down. Kimbo was really never in danger of being finished. He gave the refs the thumbs up signal when he was locked in the standing guillotine in the 1st round. He also gave the ref a couple of thumbs ups when Thompson had him trapped in the 2nd round. Yes, Thompson landed several elbows in a row, but those strikes were from about an inch away each time. No real damage was being done.

Kimbo needs to continue to be built slowly. He's still basically a rookie in this game. He has legitimate knockout power in his hands and solid striking technique. He obviously needs to work on his takedown defense, but its clear his training is working as he was able to escape some tough situations and survive out of his element.

Obviously Kimbo isn't a top 10 fighter, but I don't think anyone has ever realistically even considered him to be one. He's a MMA novice who just fought a 12 minute fight where the majority of the fight was played out on the ground and he still came out victorious.

The more I think about it, the less I feel like this show was a disaster. Every casual fan I've talked to thought the show was extremely entertaining and want to see Rogers, Kimbo, Carano, Smith, and Lawler fight again. Elite and CBS really accomplished everything they could have wanted to accomplish.

 

[Mac]

I agree to an extent CBBI, I really felt like EliteXC had the potential card and showing to put on an amazing show.

The first two fights were entertaining. The girl fight was great and the Lawler fight was amazing but the way that it ended, killed how great it was.

The Kimbo fight was good and entertaining, but the ref has to let them go 10 seconds longer and eliminate any doubt there was in the end.

The two questionable endings (Smith also had a broken foot IIRC) along with the presentation killed it for EliteXC in the big time MMA fans eyes. They made themselves look like an MTV/WWE spin off with the way they presented the show. Tasteless, classless, trashy, etc..The way they presented their show really turned me off. The extra long, rap entrances, the girls dancing and them constantly having to show it, really said to me that they are more of a gimmick then a promotion.

I wouldn't be opposed to watching them again on TV, but I'd never pay for their show.

 

[Erbium]

EliteXC is busted. I agree with CBBI that judgement on Kimbo should be withheld, as he is finally training with a real MMA guy w/ Bas Rutten, and who knows what he can become in the future.

We should be talking about Faber-Pulver last night.

Faber looks nasty. Seems strong in every facet, and didn't look tired at all last night, despite that fight going the full 5 rounds.

Would love to see him throw on a little weight and move into the UFC's Lightweight division.

 

[natedagg]

I love the way torres fights. He is a bad mofo. Maeda was game though, but his training failed him IMO and Torres just started to T off on that eye. Torres is my favorite. Faber is whack, but he is nasty. They ride his jock hard, but he is the face of WEC. Faber was quicker, but I am not convinced that he is capable of hurting Pulver, even though he beat him. That Faber-Pulver was really good for the sport on many levels.

Any thoughts on whether or not Faber or Torres would be any good in the UFC or Pride? Why wouldn't they take that next step (weight class differences)?

 

[CBBI]

Faber has stated many times he has very little interest in moving up to 155. I can imagine it isn't really high on his list to go from one of the bigger 145ers to one of the smaller 155ers.

If you are making good money at 145 and are the most dominant fighter at that weight, why would you want to move up?

It would be even worse for Torres as he's a 135er. Until the UFC adds those weight classes (which it sounds like they never will, in fact it sounds like the UFC is looking to make the WEC the home of the lighter weights), I don't see either Faber or Torres leaving their current spots.

 

[natedagg]

Ok, so it is weight class related. I would have thought that UFC would pay more than WEC, but if they aren't going to add the lower weightclasses, may as well stay at WEC. Faber would get rocked at 55 - I don't think he hits hard enough.

Torres is so lanky, it makes his jujitsu great. He still needs a little polish, but mentally, he is tough as nails.