The Ongoing Attendance Problem

[Shakalu M.D.]

They did in Detroit.

Detroit actually has some exciting players. Market share doesn't matter there though, Lions, Tigers, Red Wings, Pistons.

 

[AZ_]

How was 2005 not a successful season?

They won more games than almost any of the mid-90s teams, just ran into the fact the white sox won one more.

If you're not admitting a 90+ win season as successful, then you'll need be satisfied.

 

[AZ_]

Detroit actually has some exciting players. Market share doesn't matter there though, Lions, Tigers, Red Wings, Pistons.

How about the fact their market is twice the size of Cleveland?

Guess that doesn't matter too.

Cleveland didn't have exciting players on those teams?

2 CY young winners, Sizemore before injury. Victor.

 

[Steve_424]

Detroit actually has some exciting players. Market share doesn't matter there though, Lions, Tigers, Red Wings, Pistons.

Don't forget that Ilitch has big time revenue also coming in from the Red Wings, who he also owns.

 

[11 trumps 33]

The choice I planned on voting for wasn't even available, and i was surprised not to see any discussion on it.

People, especially younger people, just have a declining interest in the sport. I don't know if it was similar when you guys were in high school, but maybe one of my friends (relatively the bigger sports fans in the school) could name the Tribe starting lineup. But it's not just the Indians, I'd be hard pressed to find someone who knows the defending world series champions, or what team Albert Pujols is on.

On the other hand, everybody knows Gronk and Ricky Rubio. More people even know the goalie for Chelsea (Peter Cech) than Justin Masterson.

It was like pulling teeth trying to get four other people to go to Opening Day with me. It wasn't even the money or weather, they just had things the would rather do than watch baseball, and for they felt they dodged a bullet when they saw the 16 inning highlight on Sportscenter. Every year I hear about baseball's ratings going down, and I just feel that's gonna continue.

 

[Shakalu M.D.]

Don't forget that Ilitch has big time revenue also coming in from the Red Wings, who he also owns.

I think it has more to do with him being a fan of the team than it does with extra revenue. The Dolan's are business people, they don't want to lose money. If you put an average joe like one of us in the position of being an owner, we likely would go bankrupt in a year or 2 trying to be the owner who breaks the championship drought.

As for the exciting players, Grady hasn't been exciting in about 5 years. Pitching is great, but you have to have some offense to go with it. Victor was awesome, I miss him and he was fun to watch, but he isn't going to generate the same kind of excitement as having Miguel, Fielder, and Verlander. I hope Masterson turns out to be that next ace pitcher who we trade away, but we need to get some offense to go with him otherwise we're going to have a lot of 2-0 losses.

 

[Erbium]

I think it's safer to say the 90's were an anomaly than to base our expectations of the future on them. I am surprised to see no one has mentioned that Jacobs field opened in '94. New ballparks and arenas are always a huge boom initially...ours was only multiplied because we had the best offensive team of the late 90's, and then later helped by the Browns leaving just one year later. That rocketed us to a level that couldn't be sustained long term and simply won't ever be matched again.

Another reason I think the team has trouble? The lack of downtown residents and fewer people working within walking distance of the stadium (and limited to no weekday day games at home due to this) Baseball has become sport people attend games to talk business, have drinks, and enjoy the ambiance and nostalgia of the past...the game being played is just sort of there in the background....none of those things play into the favor of a stadium that is probably on average a 30 minute drive from those attending....

 

[Steve_424]

I think it has more to do with him being a fan of the team than it does with extra revenue. The Dolan's are business people, they don't want to lose money. If you put an average joe like one of us in the position of being an owner, we likely would go bankrupt in a year or 2 trying to be the owner who breaks the championship drought.

As for the exciting players, Grady hasn't been exciting in about 5 years. Pitching is great, but you have to have some offense to go with it. Victor was awesome, I miss him and he was fun to watch, but he isn't going to generate the same kind of excitement as having Miguel, Fielder, and Verlander. I hope Masterson turns out to be that next ace pitcher who we trade away, but we need to get some offense to go with him otherwise we're going to have a lot of 2-0 losses.

What I wish everyone would understand.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

The problem is that the Indians do not have the type of player that can bring in the bandwagon fans.

 

[AZ_]

I think it's safer to say the 90's were an anomaly than to base our expectations of the future on them. I am surprised to see no one has mentioned that Jacobs field opened in '94. New ballparks and arenas are always a huge boom initially...ours was only multiplied because we had the best offensive team of the late 90's, and then later helped by the Browns leaving just one year later. That rocketed us to a level that couldn't be sustained long term and simply won't ever be matched again.

Another reason I think the team has trouble? The lack of downtown residents and fewer people working within walking distance of the stadium (and limited to no weekday day games at home due to this) Baseball has become sport people attend games to talk business, have drinks, and enjoy the ambiance and nostalgia of the past...the game being played is just sort of there in the background....none of those things play into the favor of a stadium that is probably on average a 30 minute drive from those attending....

Reading some of the posts on this board, I don't think it's safe to say at all. No matter how factual it is.

Well said, though.

 

[AZ_]

The problem is that the Indians do not have the type of player that can bring in the bandwagon fans.

Like CC Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Victor Martinez, Carlos Santana...

Yeah, that's the problem.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Like CC Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Victor Martinez, Carlos Santana...

Yeah, that's the problem.

First of all, I'm not your enemy, so stop acting like a dick.

Second, none of the players bring in the bandwagon fan. Players who hit for power are what bring people to the game in Cleveland. Otherwise, to most, the game is simply boring.

I don't agree with it, but that's what I think the problem is. People are not entertained by the game of baseball in Cleveland.

 

[Shakalu M.D.]

Like CC Sabathia, Cliff Lee, Victor Martinez, Carlos Santana...

Yeah, that's the problem.

You think anyone outside of Cleveland gives a shit about Santana? He's been underwhelming at best. I usually agree with your posts, especially about the Browns, but you're in rare douchetastic form today. Also last I checked none of those guys were on the team anymore. It's not about having random seasons with success, most fans expect the team to fall of a cliff because we haven't had any consistancy. We'll have a 90 win season, then go downhill and trade away all of our players. The Indians rebuild every 3 years or so, and a lot of the time they have to start after having no real success during their competing years. I realize that is more a symptom of the sport than it is of ownership, but that's why fans lose interest.

I understand your market interest argument, and I'm one of the few who has no real problem with the Dolans other than their poor communication with the fans, but I guarantee you attendance would shoot up if this team strung a couple of seasons of success together. I'm not saying we'd sell out, I agree we will never replicate the perfect storm that lead to the attendance in the 90s, but it's tough to draw a crowd when you suck and everyone expects your good players to be gone in a year or 2.

 

[The Oi]

Personally, I think shitty drafting has been a far bigger problem that spending. I really never have had a beef with spending.

 

[Shakalu M.D.]

Personally, I think shitty drafting has been a far bigger problem that spending. I really never have had a beef with spending.

I've said it like 3-4 times already, but I have way more of a beef with Shapiro and Antonetti than I do the Dolans. They're the luckiest front office guys in Cleveland. They put out a shitty roster and everyone blames the Dolans for not spending, not the fact that they tie up what money they do have in shitty players like Kerry Wood.

Holmgren brings in a really solid GM in Heckert, who has nothing but success in the draft, and people call for their heads after a year or 2 because we haven't been good. Shapiro has been sucking for a long time and his ass gets promoted.