The unofficial Obamacare thread...

[KI4MVP]

Even with insurance, you still would've probably been stuck with one of those three choices. I was.

I have insurance, we've met our deductible for the year, 100% of the cost is now covered. It was met by the time they had a full diagnosis.

 

[gourimoko]

It all comes down to choice. I am the owner of my body and I should have the right to choose what type of health care is best for me. The number one smoke-screen and what seems to be confusing and distracting the general public is the cost. What one must realize is that the overall price is not my concern, whether it is cheaper or more expensive. My concern is that i am being forced into something that government has no right to mandate.

This is about choosing what is best for me, as an individual who owns himself.

Agreed.. I would've argued, however, that you pay taxes and while you don't necessarily have to accept health insurance, you could be required to pay into a system that provided it to everyone (such that it wasn't insurance but free care). You can stay at home, or go to a private physician or whatever, but a part of your civic duty is to pay into a system that provides for the general welfare.

Now, I think back and say, I dunno about that. It seems like a clean argument, but it's so naive. It doesn't actually give any consideration for the size and scope of the task. It seems like it could work, in a perfect world, but with a government rife with corruption and corporate influence and special interest, it's obviously the largest target for abuse the country has ever seen. The very mandate itself is an obvious power grab by the government and the biggest campaign lie in history.

 

[KI4MVP]

KI, I don't want to minimize anything you've said. I understand your plight, and I've been through experiencing my ex fight cancer, she's the mother of my two sons. It was tough.

But.. the above statement is false. It's not why most people are against the individual mandate. We're against it because it's not the role of government to force private citizens to buy corporate products. The government can tax, but the individual mandate is not a tax. It's a forced purchase.

Some would also argue that the government shouldn't be involved in issuing health care insurance to begin with, and for the longest time I disagreed with that sentiment. I felt, the government most of all could create a system that had affordable insurance that was best for the vast majority of people. I dunno if I still believe that. There is risk and reward, and I know believe (wrought through experience) that expanding the size, role, and authority of government, is not worth lower health insurance premiums. It's simply not wise.

To that end, I am really starting to think I've been completely wrong, from an ideological standpoint. I'm starting to question a lot of my progressive beliefs.

I said not everyone, but it's certainly most. Most people look no further than the fact they will have a bill that they didn't have before that they think they don't need. That's one pretty substantial group of people. There is another substantial group of people, the ones who have health insurance and don't want everyone to have the same coverage because it may mean longer waits to see the doctor.

Every person from the day they are born, or even before that, needs healthcare. It is as basic a need as food and shelter.

 

[gourimoko]

Every person from the day they are born, or even before that, needs healthcare. It is as basic a need as food and shelter.

I agree.. and I also think you do have a right to health care. But should the government force you to buy insurance? I don't think they have the authority to do that.

 

[KI4MVP]

I agree.. and I also think you do have a right to health care. But should the government force you to buy insurance? I don't think they have the authority to do that.

when society has to pick up the healthcare cost of those without insurance, it's reasonable to require insurance.

 

[WellYouNeednt]

when society has to pick up the healthcare cost of those without insurance, it's reasonable to require insurance.

That is an issue in itself right there--why should society pay for the health care of the uninsured? It is never reasonable to require anything without choice--especially forcing someone to pay a penalty for it.

You must understand that not everyone carries the same philosophy about fulfilling societies needs by force.

 

[Young Blood]

when society has to pick up the healthcare cost of those without insurance, it's reasonable to require insurance.

Society is picking up the cost either way. I'd rather have society pick up the cost without private corporations making profit being involved.

That is an issue in itself right there--why should society pay for the health care of the uninsured? It is never reasonable to require anything without choice--especially forcing someone to pay a penalty for it.

You must understand that not everyone carries the same philosophy about fulfilling societies needs by force.

We live in a civilized society so letting people die because they don't have health insurance isn't really an option. Now, for less severe circumstances, you have a point. I don't agree with forcing people to purchase health insurance. I think it is absolutely absurd and scary that our government would take such a step.

 

[Cavatt]

when society has to pick up the healthcare cost of those without insurance, it's reasonable to require insurance.

I think this is true. I can't necessarily get behind the way they are implementing it, but it really is like having a car. You can hurt others by not taking care of yourself. If you don't have insurance it impacts the people who do and the taxpayers as well.

If it is really were a choice, then if you get very sick or injured without insurance you need to die to stay honest. No one really believes in that though.

Instead everyone else pays one way or another. It can be transparent or completely opaque. Fact is they do pick homeless people off the street that have heart attacks and give them free bypass surgery which then gets passed along to both taxpayers and insurance companies.

Right now the costs are both opaque and inflated because you are not paying for just your own care. You are paying for people that don't have insurance and are getting healthcare. They are trying to get people to pay in who are not right now, but are capable of it. There are more of those than you think.

I do absolutely agree with being able to compare health plans and buy across state lines to increase competition and free market prices. This may be the only thing I totally agree with though.

Also I don't know enough about the system to say what the cutoff should be, but the 80% of money going to payouts makes sense to me. A company should not be able to increase profits by denying legitimate claims. That is like not showing up for work and getting paid more that day.

If you don't think the costs are inflated because of the invisible items, all you have to do is look at something like plastic surgery. People pay out of pocket for those surgeries, and they are quite frankly cheaper than similar necessary surgeries. Prices are based on what people can pay and competition, not all of the other hidden costs.

Again, I don't agree with everything about Obamacare, but there are underlying systemic problems with the way things are. I do think that more healthy people = more tax money and fewer charity cases.

 

[Jack Brickman]

That is an issue in itself right there--why should society pay for the health care of the uninsured? It is never reasonable to require anything without choice--especially forcing someone to pay a penalty for it.

You must understand that not everyone carries the same philosophy about fulfilling societies needs by force.

Because that would be basic human decency?

 

[The Oi]

What is stopping insurance companies from jacking rates up significantly knowing that people are going to be required to get on board with one of them?

 

[WellYouNeednt]

Because that would be basic human decency?

Do you find it to be basic human decency to force us to pay for it?

 

[Jack Brickman]

Do you find it to be basic human decency to force us to pay for it?

Considering basically every other first world country does so, yes.

 

[cavman]

What is stopping insurance companies from jacking rates up significantly knowing that people are going to be required to get on board with one of them?

I say let them do that, and some kind of public option will be born. This whole thing may lead to some form of single payer in the near future.

 

[cavman]

Do you find it to be basic human decency to force us to pay for it?

I do, I think we all should be paying into it. I just don't think we should be paying private insurers.

 

[MRMsix6]

What is stopping insurance companies from jacking rates up significantly knowing that people are going to be required to get on board with one of them?

I'm pretty sure there is some sort of government board that reviews insurance rate increases and approves them only if they are justifiable and reasonable. Or something like that.

Either way, this whole thing is going to be a disaster.