Three new Cavs add up to one big train wreck By John Hollinger

[aaronr]

As for Gooden, resigning him to a new deal puts us in that luxury tax area that we want to stay under.

Karma, what are you, Gilbert's accountant? Why do we want to stay under the luxury tax? I guess one answer is that the higher the payroll, the higher the ticket prices, but since you're an Aussie, that doesn't affect you. Personally, I don't give a damn about Gilbert's profit and loss statement, but I do want the Cavs to be NBA champions. And if that means paying some luxury tax, so be it.

 

[KI4MVP]

Karma, what are you, Gilbert's accountant? Why do we want to stay under the luxury tax? I guess one answer is that the higher the payroll, the higher the ticket prices, but since you're an Aussie, that doesn't affect you. Personally, I don't give a damn about Gilbert's profit and loss statement, but I do want the Cavs to be NBA champions. And if that means paying some luxury tax, so be it.

:yay:

that's exactly right - why does any fan care about the luxury tax? We are going to be over the salary cap next year and for many years after that. Same as the spurs, pistons, heat, lakers, pacers, etc. It is our job now to make the team attractive enough that we can attract a quality player with the MLE. The $40 million training facility they are about to build will certainly help wit that, as does having LeBron James. Our job this year isn't to win the championship, it's simply to show we are a contender so someone will take a chance to come here to go after a ring.

The only money concern is how much is Gilbert willing to spend to get a championship. Danny Ferry should have a much better idea about that than anyone here. But based on what I've seen, I suspect Gilbert has told Ferry do whatever it takes to build a championship team. Gilbert's goal clearly is to make us the class of the league.

 

[Karma]

Very funny! We all are great at spending other peoples money now aren't we!

Why do we have to go over the luxury tax to win. I dont recall Detroit or San Antonio being near it lately. I have no problem being over the cap. Its almost impossible for us to avoid that. Why would we want to be stuck with mediocre players with big contracts? You give Gooden 7 million plus and that is what you have. Damon Jones for 4 years is awful on top of Snow's deal. I dont want to be the new Knicks, where the only trades are bad contracts for bad contracts.

I dont care for Gilbert's money, but I'm sure he does.

 

[KI4MVP]

The heat/spurs/pistons all are in the $60 million ballpark with their roster, we are around $50 million. We pay Drew $4 million this year. Is it a stretch to say he's worth $7 million? That's about what the spurs play Radoslav Nesterovic. Is it a stretch to say Damon Jones is worth $3 million when the spurs pay Brent Barry $4.6 million?

 

[Karma]

Well if one team overpays a player we follow suit? Man oh man. Damon Jones may be worth 3 million, but for 1 or 2 years max.

 

[aaronr]

Karma, who's your favorite free agent coming on the market next year? Do you want to sign him even if it means paying a luxury tax, or do you want to save Gilbert some money? Tell me you're not Gilbert's accountant with your answer.

 

[KI4MVP]

Well if one team overpays a player we follow suit? Man oh man. Damon Jones may be worth 3 million, but for 1 or 2 years max.

Are they overpaying players if they are winning championships with those players starting? You don't get superstars at every position, role players are key to being a championship team.

 

[NarlCavs]

The luxury tax should be considered. When Gilbert took over as owner he gave signs that he didn't want to pay it or only wanted to pay a small amount. Brian Windhorst of the Beacon Journal even brought this up in a recent column.
The luxury tax is important when considering possible moves or future moves. I don't care what Gilbert spends but if there have been indications he wants to follow the Spurs/Pistons model where they keep salaries in line and don't have a huge luxury tax then we have to keep that in mind.

The Cavs can't or shouldn't overpay for average players. That's where teams get in trouble. You can't get into bidding wars for players like Newble, Kevin Ollie or D. Jones. If players like that won't take a reasonable offer than move on to someone else rather than increase the amount or number of years in your offer.
This is part of the reason I'm not high on trading for players such as Earl Watson or Etan Thomas. They have bad overpriced contracts for players at their talent level.

 

[Taiter]

The Cavs can't or shouldn't overpay for average players. That's where teams get in trouble. You can't get into bidding wars for players like Newble, Kevin Ollie or D. Jones.

Exactly. ESnow, who was a recovery himself from the bad ollie signing, is also in that category. Good teams use their cap space wisely. I think Marshall was a good signing despite his underperformance so far. Jones was not.

 

[Karma]

Would I resign Gooden for 7 million or take Reggie Evans for 4-5? I'd take Evans firstly because he is a better fit and secondly it makes sense cap wise. The luxury tax is an issue. I dont give a flying f#ck about Gilbert and his ways. But to ignore the issue of this tax is racing with blinkers on.

Why resign Gooden to big dollars when he is not obviously a good fit? Why sign a player with a horrible history like Jones for 4 years? These deals ruin our flexibilty. That is worth noting in my humble opinion.

Someone like Evans is another of these "average players", but he fills a need of being a tough nosed defender who can board. That to me is the prototype forward we need. Gooden is far from that and will cost almost double! Damon Jones cost an acceptable amount but he was signed or such a period that he is almost untradable due to his inept performances. Jones should have been a stopgap. Stopgaps sign for 2 years maximum otherwise they are cap killers just like the underachieving max players.

The luxury tax is an issue, so please dont be ignorant.

 

[aaronr]

Whoa, Karma, settle down. Don't let the wheels come off your wagon. The luxury tax is an issue ONLY if Gilbert makes it an issue, as Narl pointed out. And of course everyone agrees that you don't want to make stupid long-term deals, like signing Jones or trading for Snow, whether you're over or under the cap because it cuts down on your ability to manage your roster. Let me put the question in a way I think you'll agree with: If there's a free agent out there who would make us a real good team, shouldn't we sign him even it reduces Gilbert's profits?

 

[Karma]

We cannot sign anyone over the MLE so it is a rather moot point. We can go over and beyond to resign Gooden, but I have expressed my reservations there. We have to use our position delicately. We resign Gooden for big dollars, he is tough to move if he continues to not entirely fit into out situation. Drew is the only player this summer that we can sign for big dollars, so no thanks whether we are at the luxury tax border or not.

Trading Drew now or over summer to me is our best option. Something like the Duhon/Sweetney trade works for me, or even signing a player like Evans who to me improves the team despite the drop down in talent. Why continue to sign players like Drew and inhibit our chances of making future moves, whilst Gilbert gets frustrated paying millions of extra tax dollars for little reward.

 

[aaronr]

I agree with you on Gooden for Duhon and Sweetney. I haven't seen Duhon play very much, but he's obviously got more talent and potential than either Jones or Snow (who by the way has really improved his play this year and would be a real good backup to Duhon). I saw Sweetney a lot at the Garden last year. He needs to lose 20 pounds, but he's a load down low. He's very quick for a man his size. Compared to Gooden he'd probably bring as much offense, more defense, but less rebounding. I like Evans too. He used to be strictly a johnny-one-note rebounder, but he's developed a bit of an offensive game with his back to the basket in the paint.

 

[ootbttnlagitnbasf]

i agree with sasha about wild spending being counter productive. every nba player is playing for his next contract. no one wants to be buried on the bench, so everytime we add a mediocre player it makes it less likely for a slightly better player to want to come here and compete for the chance to play a role on a playoff team.

should we be like the free spenders in the league like the knicks or should we be like the smart spenders like the pistons? this is not mlb where you can sign a raft of talent and secure your spot in the playoffs. this is the nba where the players that matter most are stars not role players. we can do without a lot of luxury tax casualties.

if gilbert likes luxury tax losses then we do not have a very smart owner because there is no reason for us to be paying a luxury tax for players that do not produce and in the nba whenever you are paying the luxury tax, that is what is happening.

 

[Mac]

Basically, we do not want to become the Knicks.

They are so far over the cap that no matter what they do, they are in cap hell. They are so far over the cap, that their idea of a good deal is trading an expiring contract, i,e Penny Hardaway, for two stiffs that match his contract..furthering their problem.

Isiah Thomas is an idiot, but the Dolans (ironically, the Brother of the Indians owner) doesnt mind wasting his money (ain't that B...for the record..). Ferry isn't that dumb, I hope...and Gilbert has a pretty good sense of his money as well.