Trading for a big is more difficult than we think

[godfather]

I'm not sure the cavs should do so. Folks, I realize it's a weakness. In fact I've said this well after the Mo trade. I still think it is, mainly because we lack a true post presence offensively. Although our bigs are playing so well defensively and Z is scoring the ball as well as ever.

Trading for a big, who plays a large amount of significant minutes becomes difficult. One, say it's a Center like Brad Miller. Where are we going to play him? Z and Miller CANNOT play together at all. For both to generate enough minutes, they'd have to at times. Both are too slow defensively, and it would be a nightmare. Also, how many minutes could he get, or any big we bring in? I DON'T think the cavs should, or will trade any of their front line. Z, Ben, and Av are all going to get 20 plus minutes. They have too much of a good thing going on, even though two are offensively challenge. They are both so critical defensively, and that's a big part why we have this record right now. So this leaves the fourth guy at most around 13 a game.


Defensively our big men are so crucial to our defensive system. The big men have to be able play good help defense, and recover well. In Mike Brown's system, it takes time to get the timing down perfect. Ben Wallace was late a lot on assignments last year because the timing wasn't there yet. Something that takes a full training camp, defensively for the bigs to get down perfectly, IMO. Which is one reason why his defense is much better this season.

So say for instance we trade away ONE of these three guys(i don't think we would), we'd have to expect a HUGE set back defensively. Which could cost us games and potential seeding. I think whoever you pick up, regardless of what he does offensively. He HAS to be smart, a very quick learner, and defensively minded.

Say we keep our front line intact, which I think we know we will, what do we DO with the 4th big? So there's no point, IMO, in paying some guy 13 million(whatever Wally makes in a trade ) to play 13 minutes a game.

If the cavs trade for a big, it will have to come in a package with a perimeter player.. Whoever that big is, I doubt he's that good. Just another journeyman off the bench, he might be able to contribute some. Chances are he's not very offensively minded, though. Anything he could do offensively, JJ probably could do better. That's the only way it makes any real sense in a deal. Again, what would be the point? If we are getting a good wing player, and he's a throw in that's fine I guess. How is anyone going to make a huge impact, at 13 minutes a game? So a big man does not become crucial. Someone for insurance, that's not going to make much impact is the only thing that makes sense.

We can't trade for Joe Smith. A buyout would be fine. Someone like him is the only thing I see ideal. One, he knows the system, two he doesn't need many minutes. Three he gives us depth, and insurance. We don't have to pay him a lot of money.


I still say the cavs should go after a perimeter player, and develop JJ when playoff time roles around. A perimeter play to replace Wally wouldn't disrupt the chemistry.

Getting a big, EVEN if you don't replace any of the three will. It will change the rotation, and the minutes being played.

I would of traded for big if we weren't playing this well. Since we are, I don't see why the Cavs should. A signing for Joe Smith, if he gets bought out is the only thing I think makes sense.

 

[-Akronite-]

As I see it, Ferry is looking at all options. Therefore, he will take these things into consideration along with the talent-level we are bringing in. For example, Brad Miller doesn't put us over the top, unless we bring in a significant player like John Salmons as well.

When it comes to big men there just aren't any great bigs on the market. No names mentioned are either a) exciting or b) unrealistic.

Our best option is to bring in either a young center or a veteran big along with a starting SG IMO. There are lots of options, and I'm not sure my aforementioned scenario is even possible with the market available and what we have available for trade.

I'd like to see us make an upgrade, but it's hard to judge how big a move we need until we get into the thick of things in January. After games against tough teams on the road (including the Lakers), we can judge what our real weaknesses are on this team. Ferry knows what his options are, and if he finds a great deal that can solve our weaknesses, even if it's short term, he'll probably make the move.

LeBron just said he'd consider signing an extension this summer. That is much more plausible if we win a championship. I trust Danny Ferry to have us in the best possible shape to make that happen when the time comes.

 

["MVP"]

I see where your coming from, but there are plenty of defensive PF/C's out there who can give us 30+ MPG. I think it is fine if we drop would perhaps have to reduce Z's, Ben's, and Andy's minutes a few to get this mystery big some minutes if it makes our team better. If we make the deal at the deadline, we should have enough time before the playoffs to get this player to know the system, and how we play, and build chemistry with the other players. You can argue that we did a trade last deadline, and they didn't have enough chemistry at the deadline, but it is much easier adding 1 more player to the system instead of 4.

If there is a trade that makes the team much better, I have no doubts that Ferry will accept. I have a lot more respect for Ferry now than ever. I used to think that Ferry was an awful GM after Hughes, Marshall, and Damon didn't work out, but since then, and especially recently, he is helping the team a lot. He drafted us Boobie, then two really good prospects this season in JJ and Darnell, made a big trade at the deadline last year which I would say atleast 95% of Cavs fans still really like, and that Mo Williams deal, I don't know of one Cavs Fans who doesn't like it for us thus far. So yes, I believe Ferry will do what is right for the team.

 

[ZackMc72]

YEs there are VERY few good BIGs in the NBA it seems and the ones that are most would never be traded....

 

[glockcoma]

While I agree that it appears to be incredibly difficult to obtain a solid Big via trade, let's not forget that Memphis did trade Pau Gasol for absolute garbage. I bet if someone would have posted that trade idea in this forum they would have gotten ridiculed for it. Ferry has been doing the right things and making the right moves at the right times. I have faith that if Ferry believes that we need to add a solid big that he will get the job done.

 

[Cavatt]

I think our rotation as it stands is perfect, but as we see with an injury, we are especially vulnerable. They really don't want to hurt the development of the Rooks, and if they could improve a little bit defensively we probably don't have a problem at all. I don't remember who it was, but at the beginning of the season someone said once you are a contender it is much harder to improve. This is exactly what he was talking about.

 

[Ziggie123]

While I also have great faith that Danny Boy will do the right thing, I personally believe we need a perimeter player, which could be a SG like VC or a PF like Jamison. (I am not advocating either player) The acquisition of Ray Allen, in my opinion, is what has made the Celts one of the premier teams. We need someone to fill that role. At this point, I just don't see where another "Big" really makes us a better team assuming that we would have to give up Wally to get that player.

 

[Da_James_Gang]

Minutes wise we can still bring in a solid big who could average 20 minutes per game. Right now we are playing Bron/Wally at the 4 basically because we do not have a legit 4th option. Z onlys averages around 25 minutes per game and both Andy and Ben range from anywhere to 20-25.

Wally has to go imo, like someone mentioned in another thread. This guy is a rally killer, he has been taking bad shots and the wide open ones are not even going in. Its like the guy is trying to break the guiness world record for most hand shakes and ass slaps in a season.

Big wise i know Chris Wilcox is available, i was reading that they aren't looking for much. Add a guy like that then a perimeter defender who can shoot and i think we are good. OKC has been our favorite trading parnters, so maybe try to work a deal with them an another team to fill our needs.

 

[KIisKing]

I believe we will make 2 deal one for a big and one for a SG

Pavs/Pick for big
Wally for SG

 

[MYoung23]

The Cavaliers probably get Mikki Moore & filler for Snow's contract if they were so inclined.

Moore wouldnt be a terrible 4th big man.

 

[daytripper]

I agree MYoung.

How about this type of deal:

To Cle:
Mikki Moore
Johan Petro

To Sac:
Eric Snow

To Okla City:
Quincy Douby

 

[Smooth]

The problem is that there aren't too many quality big man laying around that teams are willing to give up for literally nothing.. With that said, I think there are 3 guys that fit that description but who could also help the Cavs:

Stromile Swift (Sasha + Jawad)
Mikki Moore (Sasha)
Channing Frye (Sasha)

All 3 are solid bigs with contracts that expire before 2010 and could help fill a role on this team...

Frye is the most interesting because Ferry has expressed interest in him in the past and has fallen out of the rotation in Portland... Plus he's the youngest of 3 and can be a solid contributor, if given the minutes (look at his years in NY)... And he's expiring, so if he doesn't work out, we can always get rid of him...

 

[The George]

Channing Frye is the guy I would love to get our hands on...

I dont know why but I have always loved his game...

 

[Seiklis]

Threw a trade together as I personally think Brad Miller is going to be the guy we end up with in the end. Only trouble with said trade is the fact Miller doesn't make enough to obtain him without something else coming from our end so I tossed this together

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4887761

Cleveland trades:
Wally
Pavlovic

Cleveland recieves:
Brad Miller
Matt Harpring

Sacramento trades:
Brad Miller
Bobby Jackson

Sacramento recieves:
Wally
Pav

Utah trades: Matt Harpring
Utah recieves: Bobby Jackson


Sacramento wants to clear salary off their cap and have expressed interest in Wally's huge cap number already. Cleveland obtaining Miller would allow them to finally not change their offense when Z is off the floor, or at least give Cleveland a 2nd high post center who can shoot instead of Varejao's "maybe it'll go in" shot. Miller also has a history with Mike Brown, I believe, so he would have some knowledge of him from Indiana. The top 7 for Cleveland is unchanged so chemistry shouldn't be a big issue either.

The only issue I personally see is the fact we would lose both of Lebron's backups, even if Wally gets the buyout, it's still 30 days with Kinsey or Williams as your backup SF. Thus why I found a SF to flip with Bobby Jackson in Harpring who is now healthy and playing for Utah once again but buried on a team with more wings than they ever need. (though I'm not sure why he played 25 minutes last night) Besides that they may just try to keep Boozer around after this season and the additional cap space a midrange level contract would provide might make it easier to accomplish. Harpring has also been a hardnosed player who tries to play defense the best he can though knee injury after knee injury has hampered that greatly, but if he is healthy is a more consistant player than Sasha, has always had very good basketball IQ and would be able to fill the gap left by your two backup SFs

So it's not in anyway a sexy trade or anything but it makes sense and upgrades the 8th and 9th slots in our rotation, keeps the kids around, and keeps 2010 completely open as neither player's deal cut into the 2010 free agency year. Heh probably not hoping to only get an upgrade for 8 and 9 on our roster but as well as the team is playing atm, I believe it'll be one of these kind of deals that could get done

 

[Thunder]

If we were getting 2 good roleplayers (or 1 roleplayer/1 starter) for Wally's contract, I wouldn't mind a duo of Frye/Webster or Miller/Salmons. I can see Miller/Salmons really happening.

As for your q about how Miller/Z would play together, they would only need to for a few minutes at a time. Miller and Andy would come off the bench and we'd be able to keep running the same exact plays we'd do with Z/Ben on the court. Just like having Ben/AV doesn't work, same thing with Z/Miller. A few minutes though wouldn't hurt, esp. with the 2 guards being 3 pt shooters and Z/Miller both outside leaving the lane wide open for Bron to drive and dish.