Tristan Thompson

[Chris Parker]

The Suns clearly won that deal.

And even so, they were looking to trade him this summer. I would suggest that given the experience with Rich Paul that many GMs would be loathe to deal with him figuring that he's an unreasonable pain in the ass, and someone to be avoided if possible. As a player that could preseumably cut down on the number of places you can play.
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/06/dangling-bledsoe-talks.html

 

[Chris Parker]

I'm still flabbergasted at all the fans that do not seem to realize that the impending cap explosion is going to result in numerous free agents being way overpaid, with Tristan setting up to be one of the few who can offer the kind of youth and upside that a GM can be easily sold on... especially when the alternative is to come up with nothing since there will be so many buyers. What Tristan is worth is ultimately set by the market, and this will be a market for the ages. The signing GM will justify it because that is the market, and the fans of the signing team will- just like Cabs fans were when they went out and spent on that awesome trio of Larry Hughes, Donyell Marshall and Damon Jones- just happy that their team got their FAs for once. Fans delude themselves all the time with the promise of 'potential', and whether fans want to acknowledge it or not, Tristan's combo of athletic ability, hustle, and hard work tend to lead one to believe he will continue to improve as he ages in the game. Too much cash will be floating around next offseason for someone NOT to overpay to add a 25 year old, playoff proven power forward with that sparkly 'potential'.

I'm still flabbergasted that after several years of these Free Agent bonanzas people haven't noticed the lack of overpaid contracts out there. Where are these sick contacts? Joe Johnson's from five years ago? Maybe that Kantner contract? Even the Favors contract doesn't look bad, and that's today. Despite teams clearing their caps for guys there haven't been a ton of overpays. Was Monta ellis 4/$32 and overpay? That's what the Mavs did when they didn't get Howard. They went super high on Matthews but that was a strange situation and he initially signed for less.

What I'm asking is -- how are you so sure that there is going to be an overpay for Thompson when there hasn't been a Koncak type of contract for a few years now. Indeed, and this is the point -- when teams strike out, they tend to load up on short term contracts and go out the next yr. Did you happen to notice that the Celts, for example signed Amir to a one yr guaranteed/one yr tm option and the same with Jerebko. don't forget there's an even bigger bonanza after next year with Griffin & Paul are available.

This idea that teams will necessarily overpay for TT because "teams do that" seems completely ill-supported and yet accepted as an a priori tho' I'd argue it hasn't been true since 2011 or 2012.

Obviously it's going to go up, but even in an elevated market it's hard to see a reasonable $12-$14M TT's max worth IMO, and $20+M and I understand why Paul would say that but I just find it difficult to believe anyone is that dumb. Certainly Toronto, a small market team, has shown no evidence of spending like the Knicks with Isaiah Thomas at the helm.

 

[Tornicade]

Really? lol But it's a good risk for Tristan to? Makes no sense.

Bledsoe had major injuries where he only played 40 games in two seperate seasons.

And even so, they were looking to trade him this summer. I would suggest that given the experience with Rich Paul that many GMs would be loathe to deal with him figuring that he's an unreasonable pain in the ass, and someone to be avoided if possible. As a player that could preseumably cut down on the number of places you can play.
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2015/06/dangling-bledsoe-talks.html

has nothing to do with Brandon knight also being under a 5 year contract.

 

[Paul]

What exactly is the luxury tax hit from just Tristan signing his desired deal and also overall, then, for the Cavs? I happened to notice earlier today, for example, that the Boston Red Sox paid a 31 million dollar tax to sign Cuban defector Yoan Moncada earlier this year to a 31 million dollar contract. Moncada will probably be in the minors another year or so. I'm also reminded of when the Sox went out and paid a 51 million dollar posting fee for Dice-K. This surprised me because we act like Gilbert is willing to spend, but he is balking at this tax like it is completely unprecedented yet the Sox went out and ponied up even more for a guy who is not even a big leaguer yet.

According to this article, the tax between the QO and the max contract for this season alone is 37.2 million. Basically hes going to cost us about 300 million over 5 years vs if they went with a vet minimum or MMLE or Mike Miller TPE type guy. Not all the luxury tax could be "blamed" on Tristan, but the fact would remain that if we saved about 15 million per season over 5 years, we'd probably save roughly 300 million.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2...ompson-could-be-dan-gilberts-worst-nightmare/

 

[flop]

TT the official whipping boy for the 2015-2016 season

 

[godfather]

Bledsoe had major injuries where he only played 40 games in two seperate seasons.

And he still got a 70 million dollar contract. They wanted the max. What significant risk does a 25 year old guard, that can score like Bledsoe, really have? Not very much.

If this was a simple security is valued more than the highest dollar amount sign, then fine. Nothing wrong with that. Kevin decided on that too. That doesn't make his agent bad.

That doesn't make Paul a bad agent if that became the case.

But if the top market dollar was the end game, then yeah, it makes his negotiating tactics a little dry.

But, I don't know. Maybe Bledsoe wanted the security. Either way, his contract shouldn't be seen as a way of pumping up Paul as an agent. That was a pretty standard deal.

It doesn't make Paul necessarily a bad agent, depending on the requests Bledsoe had, but it doesn't make him agent of the year either.

He's not done anything substantial, outside his work with LeBron to really give a good opinion on what kind of agent he really is.

 

[Paul]

IMO the only way the Cavs win these negotiations is if they get Tristan to take the QO and I guess take it without holding out any of this season and costing them a player they may kind of need depending on injuries. If they pay him 80 mil over 5 years, they lose. If they max him they lose. If they QO him and then can negotiate a reasonable Robin Lopez/Tyson Chandler deal in 2016-2017 they are winners and they would have a good player at a fair rate.

I feel Tristan is playing a role in this, he's young but he could stop this at any time and say that he takes the 80 million, which is already an overpay.

LeBron in my mind has stayed largely neutral, at least publicly. He basically said that he wants Tristan on the team but he never said Tristan deserved the max or anything close to it.

I still do wonder if other players might resent Tristan's contract which could force contract renegotiations at some point down the line, costing Gilbert more money and making it that much harder to add new talent.

Rich Paul has done a good job of moving the value range on a role player from what I would have thought should have been 10 to 15 mil per season to 16 to 19 mil per season (and then with Haynes and Windhorst also dropping this 25 mil per season doomsday scenario if he reached unrestricted free agency). He's had a lot of external forces in his favor, but seeing so many people on Twitter now defending TT at a max contract, I can't help but believe that Paul has had a role in this sentiment shift. I've also never seen Mozgov trashed so much as what I saw about 8 hours ago on Twitter. A number of folks were just saying let Mozgov go and that he was never part of the long term plan. Was pretty amazed by what I was reading... I don't remember what Randolpkeys had stated as the amount of assets we gave up to get Mozgov, but I thought that after you looked at all the maneuvers it was something on the order of 2 first round picks and a few 2nd rounders.

 

[HurricaneKid]

You probably aren't aware of this because you're new, but @godfather and anyone with a "gold name" has access to part of the site that others do not. In that section, information is shared that isn't shared on the rest of the site.

We can't get into what the information is, and you can choose to believe what he said or not, but I can't let the idea that @godfather just made that up slide; he didn't. He made no leap, and he didn't "create information to fit his own desire." It may or may not be true, but let's not call him a liar because he's repeating something he happened to read elsewhere.

I can understand why it might seem that way, but that's not the case here.



There's reasons to believe this is the case.



I'd agree with this.

I appreciate the heads up on that. I thought long and hard about voicing my disagreement with a well respected icon of the community I am joining. But I have disdain for almost any source that would paint TT as a baby that must be getting taken for a ride. I have had personal dealings in some of these worlds and the level of politics that are played are absolutely insane. If the front office respects the fan base to the degree that they share some significant nuggets of information with the most respected of posters here I think that is awesome and hope they elect to share it with me one day. But I also think that means they benefit greatly in getting the word out that TT has indicated that he wants to be here and that RP has been taking liberties. A) I fully expect that to be the case given the comments Pho made last year. And B) its his modus operandi. It is in their interests, as this drags along, to cast the blame away from a player we all expect to be back, the front office, etc and to find a scapegoat from outside the organization. RP fits that to a T.

Part of my problem is I don't respect RP as an agent. I know guys that were perfect academically and went to elite business schools and got MBAs, law degrees, etc that can't get work as agents (and some that do- getting old B players to work at boat shows and the like). And this guy with no degree was wearing the right jersey one day and became boys with LeBron and he gets to sit at the big boy table? I know very little about him but I haven't liked the way he has gone about any of his negotiations (outside of Corey Joseph I suppose) and don't know if I would be real comfortable dealing with him from a team's perspective. We'll see what happens when he cannot rely on the LeBron James relationship but I suspect without that leverage he is going to struggle.

 

[Rich]

When a player gets a larger contract than what his team offered. Thats a win. doesnt matter how much he asked for.

not sure why Bledsoe's contract gets cited as a fail when it netted a bigger contract.

That's an odd way to look at negotiation. Wouldn't the flip side be that if a player asks for more money than what he ends up getting, it's a loss?

 

[Walter White]

My sources tell me that Tristan will sign sometime within the next 6 months.

 

[Otsego Mar]

My sources tell me that Tristan will sign sometime within the next 6 months.

 

[Tornicade]

And he still got a 70 million dollar contract. They wanted the max. What significant risk does a 25 year old guard, that can score like Bledsoe, really have? Not very much.

If this was a simple security is valued more than the highest dollar amount sign, then fine. Nothing wrong with that. Kevin decided on that too. That doesn't make his agent bad.

That doesn't make Paul a bad agent if that became the case.

But if the top market dollar was the end game, then yeah, it makes his negotiating tactics a little dry.

But, I don't know. Maybe Bledsoe wanted the security. Either way, his contract shouldn't be seen as a way of pumping up Paul as an agent. That was a pretty standard deal.

It doesn't make Paul necessarily a bad agent, depending on the requests Bledsoe had, but it doesn't make him agent of the year either.

He's not done anything substantial, outside his work with LeBron to really give a good opinion on what kind of agent he really is.

Pumping up? have you been following the thread . multiple posters are saying rich paul is a abd agent because he didnt get Bledsoe a max contract or convince him to take a qualifying offer.

Paul went to bat for Bledsoe and got him a much superior deal than what phoenix was trying to pay.
I think it went more like..
Paul " you can take the 70 or take the qo and we see what we can get ya on the FA market.

Bledsoe " ill take the 70"

A bad agent would of persuaded bledsoe to sign at the first offer.

Paul isnt doing anything different than fegan had been doing for years. Once Paul is established and shown his commitment. teams will be less likely to lowball his clients.

stinging along talks is the best play right now. demanding meax is the best play right now.

hopefully it nets in a compromise. but ultimately the sign or take qo decision will come to Thompson

 

[Chris Parker]

Paul isnt doing anything different than fegan had been doing for years. Once Paul is established and shown his commitment. teams will be less likely to lowball his clients.

stinging along talks is the best play right now. demanding meax is the best play right now.

hopefully it nets in a compromise. but ultimately the sign or take qo decision will come to Thompson

It's an interesting question. I was blowing off steam in suggesting he's a bad agent. I would think that being unreasonable has a short shelf life, otherwise you would see every agent doing it all the time.

I dont' think anyone in basketball seriously believed either was worth a max so we can safely classify it as grandstanding. It's obviously sometimes successful. I wonder if it is a good tactic why everyone doesn't do it. I suspect because guys come in to meet you expecting to fight so they're going to low ball you from the jump expecting you to go ridiculously high and make you find a higher middle.

But I fully acknowledge I might be but-ass wrong about this. But to me, if I'm a pro and some guy who's other three guys are Kevin Seraphim, Norris Cole and Ben McLemore, I would try to avoid his ass and deal with someone I liked and who dealt what I would call "fairly."

Obviously it's mostly for the press (and this one, lively off-season thread) and in a certain sense is harmless, but it would annoy me as a GM and I'd rather not deal with the guy if I could, much like Scott Boras. It's honey vs. vinegar. But who knows maybe he's a trailblazer and nobody else thought of how to ask for many times what a guy's worth. (Boras always has the phantom team that's also bidding.)

 

[Paul]

It seems like Rich Paul has used about all the moves he can make now. The only one I see left is him threatening to have TT sit out the season if he has to take the QO. That or maybe have LeBron threaten to walk away from the team after the 2015-2016 season if TT (and perhaps also Mozgov?) isn't signed long term.

None of it seems like stuff the court of public opinion would get behind. I mean when LeBron came to Cleveland and formed a big 3, wasn't it basically assumed that the payroll structure would be to give the big 3 max contracts and then surround those 3 players with affordable role players and vet ring chasers? How else could they realistically make the team work and stay within reasonable limits? Now it seems like we could be looking at a big 5 of LeBron, Kyrie, Love, Mozgov and Tristan all demanding 18 mil plus a season.

Draymond Green had the Warriors by the balls. They had to keep him, he's probably the third best player on their team and just helped them win a championship. And even with all that going for him, he didn't demand the max.

Shumpert had about as much leverage as Tristan and he happily signed a 10 mil per season deal.

 

[Tornicade]

It's an interesting question. I was blowing off steam in suggesting he's a bad agent. I would think that being unreasonable has a short shelf life, otherwise you would see every agent doing it all the time.

I dont' think anyone in basketball seriously believed either was worth a max so we can safely classify it as grandstanding. It's obviously sometimes successful. I wonder if it is a good tactic why everyone doesn't do it. I suspect because guys come in to meet you expecting to fight so they're going to low ball you from the jump expecting you to go ridiculously high and make you find a higher middle.

But I fully acknowledge I might be but-ass wrong about this. But to me, if I'm a pro and some guy who's other three guys are Kevin Seraphim, Norris Cole and Ben McLemore, I would try to avoid his ass and deal with someone I liked and who dealt what I would call "fairly."

Obviously it's mostly for the press (and this one, lively off-season thread) and in a certain sense is harmless, but it would annoy me as a GM and I'd rather not deal with the guy if I could, much like Scott Boras. It's honey vs. vinegar. But who knows maybe he's a trailblazer and nobody else thought of how to ask for many times what a guy's worth. (Boras always has the phantom team that's also bidding.)

by the same token I dont know whether paul is a good agent or not but phoenix front office trying to make him look silly after the deal was struck really doesnt hold any wieght. perhaps its bad memories of phoneix and the amare circus.

but his tactics seem sound enough. from denying the extension offer. to not agreeing to whatever was initially offered at the get go.

Ultimatly if the Cavs dont make a higher offer. and tristans signs for 80. its gonna hurt Paul bad.(although not in the pocketbook) If he genuinely doesnt even come to the table to take a higher offer cause its not max. then thats a bad move and a bad move by Tristan if he ends up singning a qo becuase his agent wouldnt allow negotiations to have a compromise.

Cavs may go up from 80 but not to max.

realistically. If Thompson signs a 4 year 80 deal next year and almost 7 for his qo this year. thats 87 million.
uf tristan signed at 22 next season
thats 22+ 22.99+ 23.98 + 24.97 thats about 100 million for 5 years .

Even in an Inflated market Thompson doesnt merit a 25% contract and noone will pay it. despite having money available teams might pay more but they will stick to their percentages because it has proved effective int he last 5 years at minimizing overpays and bad contracts.

Menawhile a 17.5-18.5 first year contract is a bit more reasonable.. evaluating him as a 20% player.
Tristan would need to start out at 18 to make his 80 Million in 4 and that takes him to 87.

85-86 should be the ultimate goal for Thompson and Paul which accounts for the two season the cap will increase 20 percent.
Ive stated before I value Tristan as a 16-18 percent guy. However the cap jumps justify a demand for 20%. anything more though is just posturing and ill beleive it when i see the QO offer signed.