Tristan Thompson

[Rich]

Tons of good big men just signed deals well below what Thompson is asking for. These aren't old contracts they were just done in July. These players and their agents should have been using the same information and logic that you are. These deals were all inked with the knowledge that the cap was about to rise dramatically. The cap rise was factored into the deals. The reason Thompson is asking more than these comparable names is that he knows the Cavs are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

• Robin Lopez: 4 years, $54 million with Knicks
• Tyson Chandler 4 years, $52 million with Suns
• Ed Davis: 3 years, $20 million with Blazers
• Kosta Koufos: 4 years, $33 million with Kings
• Amir Johnson: 2 years, $24 million with Celtics
• Omer Asik: 5 years, $60 million with Pelicans

I've already done this for him. He just ignores literally every deal signed this summer and pretends everyone is doing what TT is doing.

 

[TyGuy]

Tons of good big men just signed deals well below what Thompson is asking for. These aren't old contracts they were just done in July. These players and their agents should have been using the same information and logic that you are. These deals were all inked with the knowledge that the cap was about to rise dramatically. The cap rise was factored into the deals. The reason Thompson is asking more than these comparable names is that he knows the Cavs are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

• Robin Lopez: 4 years, $54 million with Knicks
• Tyson Chandler 4 years, $52 million with Suns
• Ed Davis: 3 years, $20 million with Blazers
• Kosta Koufos: 4 years, $33 million with Kings
• Amir Johnson: 2 years, $24 million with Celtics
• Omer Asik: 5 years, $60 million with Pelicans

I would also add Bizmack Biyombo signing a two year 10 million dollar deal. The amount that Tristan and Paul thinks he is worth is ludicrous.

 

[Tornicade]

That unfair notion has been coming a lot from CLE/LeBron/Love haters. I will never understand their logic when we never saw even a minute of action from Love vs GS.

EDIT: I mean the thought of TT being the make or break against GS and other similar teams. He's certainly a good player but by no means of being the piece to kill teams.

Tons of good big men just signed deals well below what Thompson is asking for. These aren't old contracts they were just done in July. These players and their agents should have been using the same information and logic that you are. These deals were all inked with the knowledge that the cap was about to rise dramatically. The cap rise was factored into the deals. The reason Thompson is asking more than these comparable names is that he knows the Cavs are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

• Robin Lopez: 4 years, $54 million with Knicks
• Tyson Chandler 4 years, $52 million with Suns
• Ed Davis: 3 years, $20 million with Blazers
• Kosta Koufos: 4 years, $33 million with Kings
• Amir Johnson: 2 years, $24 million with Celtics
• Omer Asik: 5 years, $60 million with Pelicans

you ever see Asik play power forward?
Robin lopez play power forward.


Ed davis certainly is a lower tier player than Tristan.

Amir took a two year contract....2017 will have a 100 million dollar cap.

Koufos has never played more than 22 minutes a game.

Tyson chandler is 32

Kanter signed 4 years 70 million

green 5 for 83-85 whatever it actually was.

JV 4 for 64. Jonas could of got alot more but if he gets injured next season he is covered.

 

[Paul]

I've already done this for him. He just ignores literally every deal signed this summer and pretends everyone is doing what TT is doing.

Rich Paul's best contract to look at is Enes Kanter. He can argue that 2 teams were willing to give Kanter the max and, because he's a defensive liability, he's should have less market value than TT. It's a debatable position, but a good case can be made.


That said, I think the Kanter contract is the exception and if they went through all the comparable big men who just signed, TT's demands would look unfavorable for the Cavs relative to just about all of them.

Torn, I think comparing TT to centers is valid since TT plays a lot of center and if we end up maxing him he may end up being our starting center in 2016-2017, with Mozgov signing elsewhere for money that the Cavs won't match.

 

[TyGuy]

you ever see Asik play power forward?
Robin lopez play power forward.


Ed davis certainly is a lower tier player than Tristan.

Amir took a two year contract....2017 will have a 100 million dollar cap.

Koufos has never played more than 22 minutes a game.

Tyson chandler is 32

Kanter signed 4 years 70 million

green 5 for 83-85 whatever it actually was.

JV 4 for 64. Jonas could of got alot more but if he gets injured next season he is covered.

I'm not so sure about that. Ed Davis is a more productive player per his time on the court. He also adds more size when you move him to center than Tristan and provides better rim protection. Even if we did take your word for it (which I disagree) there certainly isn't a 30 million dollar chasm between the two (which Tristan seems to think).

 

[Rich]

Tristan is definitely in the same class as Chandler, Lopez, and Asik (although you could argue that they are all better at blocking shots, but TT probably is a better rebounder then all of them so we'll call it a wash. All of those guy, Imo, would be an overpay at $12-13M under the old system, but under the new TV money I think that's perfectly fair. The fact that TT (or Rich Paul) wants even more than that is just insane, and cannot be justified by his play on the court.

I mean, I like TT and he provides a value to our team. But at a certain point you have to be realistic and not let your agent be an asshole. If he feels that he can improve his game to justify that money, then he should either take the QO or sign a 3 year deal with an option that lets him hit the market again when he's had more time to develop and is still young. But he can't just expect to get paid the max when he's had four solid, but not great years to start his career. That level of entitlement is not good for a championship team.

I agree with your post, but just to continue actually fleshing out TTs place in this league, he is NOT a better rebounder than Tyson Chandler or Asik. Both are better defensive rebounders by a meaningful margin and both are pretty much dead even when it comes to offensive rebounding. I know that's gonna strike a lot of people as false, because after all Tristan Thompson is probably the greatest offensive rebounder of all time, but the numbers are there for everyone to see.

For their careers, Omer Asik has a total rebounding percentage of 21, Tyson Chandler of 18.6, and Tristan Thompson of 16.7.

And before anyone thinks it unfair to compare career averages, they were both better than Tristan last year. Chandler's TRP was 20.7, Omer Asik was 21.4, and Tristan Thompson was 17.2.

Using the per 36 numbers paints a similar picture. Last season both Chandler and Asik averaged 13.6 rebounds per 36 and Thompson averaged 10.8.

As for offensive rebounding, where Tristan excels compared to other big men, he evens up with those two, but he doesn't by any means separate himself compared to the numbers above.

For their careers, Tristan's offensive rebounding percentage is 13.2, Chandler's 12.8, and Asik's 13.4.

Last season Tristan's percentage was 14.5, Chandler's 14.1, and Asik's 14.0.

Tristan is a slightly better offensive rebounder than Chandler, at best even with Asik, and then a significantly worse defensive rebounder than both.

Just some more numbers to help show the value of a guy like Thompson around the league. Rebounding is, undoubtedly, his greatest strength, but it's been built up so much that we just assume he's one of the two or three best rebounders in the league. He's not. He's a good but not great rebounder.

 

[Rich]

you ever see Asik play power forward?
Robin lopez play power forward.


Ed davis certainly is a lower tier player than Tristan.

Amir took a two year contract....2017 will have a 100 million dollar cap.

Koufos has never played more than 22 minutes a game.

Tyson chandler is 32

Kanter signed 4 years 70 million

green 5 for 83-85 whatever it actually was.

JV 4 for 64. Jonas could of got alot more but if he gets injured next season he is covered.

Green is a better player. Chandler is a better player. And if Thompson would like to sign a deal similar to Amir Johnson's, I'm sure the Cavs would be just fine with that.

Meanwhile, whatever you want to say about JV and Kanter, they're starters and both competent on the offensive end.

 

[TyGuy]

I think Tristan's best skill is that he is never hurt. His skills on the court are replaceable. His rebounding is good, but not great; his defense is again okay, but nothing spectacular. He gets beat up inside by bigger players, but he's pretty solid at pick and roll defense, but also has trouble with slow rotations at times. There just isn't enough there when you factor in his below average offense. He either needs to rebound at a higher rate (particularly defensively), become a better defender in the post, provide more resistance at the rim, or develop a three point shot of .33 or above (not likely)to make these kind of contract demands with a straight face.

 

[spydy13]

I agree with your post, but just to continue actually fleshing out TTs place in this league, he is NOT a better rebounder than Tyson Chandler or Asik. Both are better defensive rebounders by a meaningful margin and both are pretty much dead even when it comes to offensive rebounding. I know that's gonna strike a lot of people as false, because after all Tristan Thompson is probably the greatest offensive rebounder of all time, but the numbers are there for everyone to see.

For their careers, Omer Asik has a total rebounding percentage of 21, Tyson Chandler of 18.6, and Tristan Thompson of 16.7.

And before anyone thinks it unfair to compare career averages, they were both better than Tristan last year. Chandler's TRP was 20.7, Omer Asik was 21.4, and Tristan Thompson was 17.2.

Using the per 36 numbers paints a similar picture. Last season both Chandler and Asik averaged 13.6 rebounds per 36 and Thompson averaged 10.8.

As for offensive rebounding, where Tristan excels compared to other big men, he evens up with those two, but he doesn't by any means separate himself compared to the numbers above.

For their careers, Tristan's offensive rebounding percentage is 13.2, Chandler's 12.8, and Asik's 13.4.

Last season Tristan's percentage was 14.5, Chandler's 14.1, and Asik's 14.0.

Tristan is a slightly better offensive rebounder than Chandler, at best even with Asik, and then a significantly worse defensive rebounder than both.

Just some more numbers to help show the value of a guy like Thompson around the league. Rebounding is, undoubtedly, his greatest strength, but it's been built up so much that we just assume he's one of the two or three best rebounders in the league. He's not. He's a good but not great rebounder.

I had a feeling that this was probably the case, but didn't bother to look up the numbers. So even factoring in the supposed compensation due for LeBron's return, the most he should be getting is what those guys got because he is both a lesser rim protector and rebounder.

 

[David.]

This is all a fruitless effort and not the convo to have

How do we get a championship if we lose a good player for nothing? how do we replace his production, even if it's on other areas and not boards, with no assets or cap space, if all we could get before was Mo Williams?

I think Tristan's best skill is that he is never hurt. His skills on the court are replaceable. His rebounding is good, but not great; his defense is again okay, but nothing spectacular. He gets beat up inside by bigger players, but he's pretty solid at pick and roll defense, but also has trouble with slow rotations at times. There just isn't enough there when you factor in his below average offense. He either needs to rebound at a higher rate (particularly defensively), become a better defender in the post, provide more resistance at the rim, or develop a three point shot of .33 or above (not likely)to make these kind of contract demands with a straight face.

 

[Rich]

This is all a fruitless effort.

How do we get a championship if we lose a good player for nothing? how do we replace his production, even if it's on other areas and not boards, with no assets or cap space, if all we could get before was Mo Williams?

We aren't losing anything. He's here next year.

 

[David.]

And then NBA ceases to exist after the2015/16 season?

We aren't losing anything. He's here next year.

 

[TyGuy]

And then NBA ceases to exist after the2015/16 season?

Teams aren't banging the door down to offer their precious max to a big that neither stretches the floor or protects the rim; that is a pretty good rebounder and decent enough at pick and roll defense, and not quite big enough to play center against real centers.

The team doesn't need to make a long term decision on a player like this when he is guaranteed to be back next year and much better free agents to throw that kind of money at the following season.

 

[Rich]

And then NBA ceases to exist after the2015/16 season?

Well apparently because you're telling me that we couldn't get anything other than Mo Williams and that will always be the case from now until forever.

A 2018 1st round pick starts looking better the closer we get to 2018. It becomes easier to use the trade exception when we get closer and closer to the cap going up and the tax hit being less. Players who weren't available this season might be available next off-season.

 

[David.]

Teams aren't banging the door down to offer their precious max to a big that neither stretches the floor or protects the rim; that is a pretty good rebounder and decent enough at pick and roll defense, and not quite big enough to play center against real centers.

The team doesn't need to make a long term decision on a player like this when he is guaranteed to be back next year and much better free agents to throw that kind of money at the following season.

Rich already found teams who will, which explains why they're not signing.