Well...at least Z played well once

[highplainsdrifter]

And i for one am tired of seeing Z try to take charges. He may get one every now and then, and take one if you got good position, but id rather see Z use his length and go for the block. Taking charges is more for guards. Yet i do not like floppers. You flop and theres no call and your ass is left on the floor. This is bball, not acting class. Flopping is for the weak...........

 

[Rimage]

Wow, not a good start to the road trip. I was hoping to see them show some offensive sets, but instead they reverted to what looked like last year's defense. Only 1 or 2 guys were actively defending at once, they were reacting instead of forcing the whole time. Ridnour was in complete control almost the whole game, shooting the jumper every so often just to keep us honest. And for some reason we got scared, I have no idea why.

And wow, I love Z just as much as the next fan, but dammit, Seattle's interior defense is a joke. He should have been *owning* them on the block. Yes we were settling for too many outside shots, but Z bobbled just about everything they did get to him. He was way out of his spin-around/duck-under rhythm.

That play Fortson got thrown out on was a joke. All he did was push Z out of the way with his right hand and Z crashed out of bounds because he's tall and unsteady on his feet when running. Z knows he can't afford to get too mad, the simple truth is Fortson and most centers could have beat the piss out of him. And no one on the court at the time would have stopped him. One wrong fall and there goes the 10 million dollar foot, or even a broken leg. We need an enforcer in the worst way- wonder if Zendon is up to the challenge? Not that Mike Brown would ever condone that.

I think we watched different games. Z hardly got any passes inside. He took 6 shots and made three of them. Three of those shots were not in the post, they were midrange jumpers and he mad two of them. When he did get into the low post (one time) he easily got the lay up. He had no help and I don't remember him bobbling any passes.

Fortson got a tech because he had been throwing elbows at Z all night, and the refs gave him a tech because despite getting away with the elbows, he continued to play too physical (he threw his hip at Z to push him out of bounds). Z being tall and slow has nothing to do with dirty play. Fortson would have just got a tech, but he mouthed off and that is why he got another tech and ejected.

Fortson played dirty and got thrown out. We don't need a goon or someone to throw punches. This isn't boxing, this isn't hockey. This obsession of a goon to take cheap shots and get in fights is very lame to me. The Spurs have no goon and they are the champs. Sonics have the highly sought-after goon aaaaand...they aren't that good.

 

[Rimage]

And i for one am tired of seeing Z try to take charges. He may get one every now and then, and take one if you got good position, but id rather see Z use his length and go for the block. Taking charges is more for guards. Yet i do not like floppers. You flop and theres no call and your ass is left on the floor. This is bball, not acting class. Flopping is for the weak...........

Right, it is basketball, not acting class. It is also not a streetfight. I really do hate this. You don't want Z to try to get a turnover by taking a charge, but you do want to someone on the team that will take cheapshots. Are cheapshots for the strong? Maybe we can trade Z for Fortson...we will be sooo street then

 

[moohead]

An enforcer (Oakley) is not a goon (Mahorn).

We are a soft team right now, and teams know it. It's not just Z. It's everyone on the defensive end except Hughes and Snow.

Mr Moohead has a good knowledge of b-ball. And Damon's a hot dog. We don't need that. But Luke and Sasha are limited, so we are weak at guard. Newble will give us a little physicality off the bench.

We threw up too many 3's indeed. But why can't ANY Cavs line-up get it to Z?
This is the same story I've heard for at least 3 years. It seems coincidental that the coach makes a point of saying Z's gonna get it, then he doesn't. It's either one of two things:

We have a consistently lousy offensive concept

Z can't clear out and get space in the paint.

It really is that simple. To me, the half court set is incredibly slow waiting for something to develop down low. Guards hold the ball and look, but there's no entry pass available. When I see ONE Cavs team do it successfully, I will be able to evaluate Z better.

Moo

 

[Karma]

I will be able to evaluate Z better.

That would be refreshing!

 

[LyXo]

We have a consistently lousy offensive concept

Actually, we pretty much have no offensive concept right now.
Silas' wasn't that bad in January and February, when the team was playing well, coincidentally Z was the main man on the team.

Z can't clear out and get space in the paint.

Z has problems with physical players. Any lumbering giants do poorly against guys that take out the hips well. See: Boris Diaw (6'7) VS Yao Ming (7'6)

It really is that simple. To me, the half court set is incredibly slow waiting for something to develop down low.

It's called controlling/adapting to tempo. Yes, we do run very well, probably one of the best running teams in the NBA. But there are teams that are walls that you have to slowly climb over, or you'll fall flat on your face.

Guards hold the ball and look, but there's no entry pass available.

That's something that needs to be worked on from the outside. And Z does need to toughen up to gain position against these guys that take out the hips. Or more pick and rolls should be run.

When I see ONE Cavs team do it successfully, I will be able to evaluate Z better.

If you have tapes from last season, check out January-February.

 

[The Disector]

I 'm gonna say it whether anyone wants to hear it or not!!

I TOLD YOU SO!

When the Cavs were talking about resigning Z I said this team will never win a championship as long as he is the Cavs starting center!

I told you guys Z was to slow, to weak in the post and to poor of a passer out of the double team for him to be a legit big man who helps his team win!

I also said this team would be like the Kings and Mavs of the past few years and be an atrocity on the defensive side of the ball after all the offseason moves!

This team needs a defensive minded center who preferabley can run the floor and an all around point guard(maybe Mike James) who can both defend and score!

The the last thing this team needs added to the puzzle is some fire on the defensive side of the ball.
In other words someone who gets excited when they shut someone down!

I want the Cavs to win a chamionship not just be a pretty high scoring ball club and with this team they have now its just not gonna happen period!!!

 

[Karma]

Oh look who has turned up. The man who said Jerome James is a better fit and pretty much better player then Ilgauskas. There's that lock up defender, great passer etc that this team needs.

 

[Mac]

Jerome James sighting!!!!!!!

Amazingly, 6.8 minutes a night. He is a BEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man, that one playoff game really sent his playing level through the roof!

How good are the Knicks again? How bout them Cavs, whats their record?

Yeah, thats what I thought.

Shut up.

 

[NarlCavs]

It's amazing that after the pathetic defensive effort by LeBron, Hughes and Jones last night that somehow Z is the one who gets the criticism. I guess our 7-3 C should have been the one stopping Allen, Lewis and Murray easily blow past their defender on the perimeter or stop the wide open 3's those 3 players repeatedly got last night.

The defensive problems the Cavs have start on the perimeter not from anything Z does. He's not the cause of the Cavs being the worst team in the NBA in defending the 3 pointer.

It also might be about friggin' time that our young genius coach installed some type of offensive system in the halfcourt and actually used the rare commodity he has--an offensively skilled C. It looked like it finally started happening in the Clippers game but was basically abandoned again last night.

 

[Karma]

Once again we are not alone in our thoughts on Ilgauskas.

Brian Windhorst Blog

LA Confidential
Los Angeles -- I left my hotel for the Clippers game extra early because I had to take the 101 past the LA Coliseum to get to Staples Center. I wanted to beat the exiting crowds from the USC-UCLA game. So I left at the start of the third quarter and still ran into thousands of cars...all UCLA fans leaving early.

I would like to watch last night's game again because when I was crazy busy trying to get a story done by the buzzer due to time zone constraints and I think I missed some stuff. Here's what I can tell you, it was the first time this season I've seen Mike Brown and Danny Ferry outwardly troubled by their lack of defense.

Brown was throwing all sorts of different strategies out there and none of them were working, which I know is troubling to him. I thought the entire defense was awful, especially the way they allowed Seattle, the most dangerous 3-point team in the NBA, to get so many looks so early in the game. But apparently, all of you thought Damon Jones was the worst. I heard from several people by e-mail today, including a fan from out here in Cali who has vowed to call him Amon Jones from now on because he has no "D."

Damon had a bad defensive night, but he wasn't alone. He also had a great offensive night, but he wasn't alone. Until the Cavs sell out on defense like they do on offense you are going to continue to see these types of games.

Also, I feel they were guilty of doing the things I warned about in my last post. They settled for 3-pointers just to try to match the Sonics and ran with them when they should've tried to slow things down by getting it to Ilgauskas, who had a huge advantage whenever Nick Collison was on him.

Oh, well, on to the next...

 

[The Disector]

Jerome James sighting!!!!!!!

Amazingly, 6.8 minutes a night. He is a BEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man, that one playoff game really sent his playing level through the roof!

How good are the Knicks again? How bout them Cavs, whats their record?

Yeah, thats what I thought.

Shut up.

Exactly this proves nothing if he doesn't get minutes he cant perform.

Also I never said the knicks would be good in fact I said they would still be sorry its not my fault you thought they would be any good!!!

Also everyone mocked me when I said Diop could be a solid defensive role player when he was deep on the Cavs bench getting no minutes and no oportunity a la Jerome James!

I'd still take him over Z-lol..At least they arent paying him 11 mil per year!



As for the Cavs record who cares how many games we win this season(not like we have such an impressive record anyway 10-6) its about a team that can win in the playoffs and with Z at center you can forget going anywhere!

Its not my fault that I was right about Z and you were wrong.

That being the case maybe its time you shut up!!

 

[The Disector]

Oh look who has turned up. The man who said Jerome James is a better fit and pretty much better player then Ilgauskas. There's that lock up defender, great passer etc that this team needs.

Cmon Karma I expect this out of "a mac" but not you-this is just a flat out lie!


I said I'd take Jerome James over Z and still would but in no way did I ever say he was a much better player, lock up defender or great passer.

I said he is a better defender who can at least post up his man with strength on the block and contribute to a good team!!!

 

[Mac]

Whats sad and pathetic is, Jerome James got a fat contract and Z avg more rebounds than Jerome James gets in minutes.

Pathetic.

I agreed that Diop would be a servicable C, but he is still only good for 10-15 min a night.

The bottom line is, jackass, that is James was so good. HE WOULDNT BE ON THE BECNH WOULD HE?!

He was on the bench in Sacremento, he was on the bench in Seattle, he is on the bench in New York, maybe you should get the hint. The dude sucks, point blank. He is terrible.

Z is getting ignored in the offense by Coach Brown and he still puts up 14 PPG with 8 RPG. His defense is improved as well, maybe you should rewind the Clippers game where he took Brand out position on that last second shot.

Bottom line is, Z will be an All Star......again. Jerome James will be rotting on the bench......again.

Its amazing how stupid you make yourself look on here, yet you still argue. You shoulda stayed away...foolish.

 

[Kypus]

Fortson got a tech because he had been throwing elbows at Z all night, and the refs gave him a tech because despite getting away with the elbows, he continued to play too physical (he threw his hip at Z to push him out of bounds). Z being tall and slow has nothing to do with dirty play. Fortson would have just got a tech, but he mouthed off and that is why he got another tech and ejected.

I definitely missed the hip check then, it looked like the push caused Z to either trip over his own feet or the cameraman on the baseline.

A few of the bobbles he eventually drew fouls on, a couple he turned over. Don't get me wrong, Z getting to the line is good since he's 1 of the best FT% big men out there. But this was against guys he should have been taking 1, if not 1-and-the-foul -easily. Collison, Vlad Rad, etc.

And yes, we were leaving Z hanging. We weren't getting it to him in the post, but even worse, not giving him an outlet pass option to repost. I think with our defensive collapse the last 2 games, it will be a while before Brown even addresses offensive sets. It would be so easy to leave Snow over by the left block if/*when* Z gets swarmed. But there was no one there! Once there's no one there to back him up, he stopped looking. Very frustrating.