Well...at least Z played well once

[Kypus]

An enforcer (Oakley) is not a goon (Mahorn).
We are a soft team right now, and teams know it. It's not just Z.

Agreed. I don't know where this boxing and hockey smack came from. I was kidding about sending Zendon out there, that was just frustration because we had no answer Friday. Sorry if the sarcasm didn't translate. The fact is we don't have an enforcer (we need one), a goon (no, too detrimental), or a flat out excellent 1-on-1 pest defender like Bowen (we may already have this in AV, depending on his shoulder). Until we have that player, we will be able to "play team defense" but defense will not define our team the way Mike Brown wants it to.

 

[Karma]

Just take a look at this next game. Watch what happens off the ball when Brad Miller gets the ball at center. You'll see alot of movement and alot of option for Miller to take. Brand also had this luxury. Then watch Ilgauskas, and see how stagnent we are off the ball. Ilgauskas may not be a great passer, but he is even worse when he has little to no options.

 

[Kypus]

Yes, Brad Miller is the best passing center in the game. Better than Shaq currently even. It doesn't hurt that he can shoot 3s either.

 

[Karma]

Miller is a rare commodity. His passing game is second to none at his position. However the point is, his team mates work themselves into good position off the ball whether they are to receive the ball or not. Ilgauskas will never be mistaken for Miller in his passing abilities, but the Cavaliers will do worse then take in a few things from the Kings offense.

 

[NarlCavs]

Z actually does have pretty good passing ability but rarely gets the chance to display it in the Cavs offense.
Karma brought up a great point about the movement and options that Miller gets with the Kings. The Cavs most times have very little offensive movement. When Z does receive a pass in the post his teammates usually show very little movement and don't provide a passing option for him. The same happens when LeBron and Hughes have the ball many times. They dribble around the perimeter and teammates stand and watch them. Brown has to get the Cavs to have movement offensively. It should be a major focus for him.

If we only had that future hall of famer whose name will be mentioned in NBA history along with Wilt, Russell and Shaq---Jerome James.

 

[moohead]

Z is a good passer. Look at his stats. None of his teammates ever moved, and we never had an offensive concept. This being the case, how do we know he's a good passer?

We say so if we like him. If we don't like him, we say he can't pass. What's the truth.

I don't give a shit anymore. I'll cover new ground starting Monday, including the hidden meaning of Damon Jones 3 point gesture.

Moo

 

[NarlCavs]

I have seen many times in Z's career where when teammates do cut and provide a passing outlet either for a jumper or drive to the hoop where Z has made some great passes.
I'm not saying Z doesn't deserve some blame. There are many times where he forces a bad shot instead of looking to make the pass but it is a 2 way street.

There's too much 1 on 1 play and not enough movement in the Cavs offense. It's a pattern that continues every year. I don't know whether it's coaching or some selfish clueless players.

I'm done with the Z discussions too Moo. I've grown tired of the same stuff that comes up a few times every season.

 

[Pioneer10]

With regards to our frontcourt, we miss AV terrible. We could use his energy and reboudning off the bench in a lot of situations.

 

[B Mac]

Moo Thank you for taking my advice, its on to Damon bashing for you now... Im just kidding with you man, I guess I was a little too harsh on you in a few of my posts but it came at a time where Z was taking the heat for things I didnt feel were his fault. The truth is you brought up a good discussion at least, even if it does always turn in to a bitching session for everyone. Graze on Moo, graze on.

 

[The Disector]

Whats sad and pathetic is, Jerome James got a fat contract and Z avg more rebounds than Jerome James gets in minutes.

Pathetic.

I agreed that Diop would be a servicable C, but he is still only good for 10-15 min a night.

The bottom line is, jackass, that is James was so good. HE WOULDNT BE ON THE BECNH WOULD HE?!

He was on the bench in Sacremento, he was on the bench in Seattle, he is on the bench in New York, maybe you should get the hint. The dude sucks, point blank. He is terrible.

Z is getting ignored in the offense by Coach Brown and he still puts up 14 PPG with 8 RPG. His defense is improved as well, maybe you should rewind the Clippers game where he took Brand out position on that last second shot.

Bottom line is, Z will be an All Star......again. Jerome James will be rotting on the bench......again.

Its amazing how stupid you make yourself look on here, yet you still argue. You shoulda stayed away...foolish.

I think you're the stupid looking one!

You run off at the mouth like a moron claiming what Z will do and hope and prey it comes true while I on the other hand have the watched the games and see Z has stunk this year and has been overrated by far to many Cavs fans!

You are such a comlpete moron it isn't even funny.
You go on making all the excuses you can make for Z's bad play and on top of it you try to use name calling and lies to discredit anyone who can prove you wrong!

I understand tho-you are the average Cavalier fan and just like most deserve to get what you want..You wanted Z and you got him and thanks to idiots like you as long as he is here you can say "We couldnt even win a championship with LeBron"!

Dont get it wrong I'm a Cavs fan but playoffs arent what I want.
I want the whole shabang and with Z in the middle of this team its not gonna happen-In fact Im so sure Im willing to bet your ignorant ass!

If you actually can sit there and say Z is playing good this year your stupidity is beyond anyone on this board(or maybe you are just blind) because he has stunk almost every game this year trying that sickening 1 hand hook toward the middle shot!

On another note note-Larry Brown has a history of benching players with good potential and talent so you can take all your Jerome James talk and stick it where the sun don't shine baecause once again your lack of intellect is showing because this was a thread about Z's play not anyone elses!!!

 

[Karma]

Larry Brown is playing a rookie ahead of Jerome James. Larry Brown benches undisciplined players. Disector you have it in for Z no matter what he does. He was our best player last game by far, but I'm sure you'll disagree because you are a hater. You wont see any other holes. Your alterior motives are comical. Z's weaknesses have been discussed at lengths. Z strengths have as well. Shame you wear blinkers and ignorant to the hole story. You only post to hate on Ilgauskas which says alot. You have nothing useful to say, so if you want to continue posting show some sort of objectivity. Ilgauskas was our only post player turn up vs the Clips in both games and challenge Brand. You are spookily quiet on bad mouthing other players. Why just pick one player when the faults lately lie elsewhere.

 

[The Disector]

Larry Brown is playing a rookie ahead of Jerome James. Larry Brown benches undisciplined players. Disector you have it in for Z no matter what he does. He was our best player last game by far, but I'm sure you'll disagree because you are a hater. You wont see any other holes. Your alterior motives are comical. Z's weaknesses have been discussed at lengths. Z strengths have as well. Shame you wear blinkers and ignorant to the hole story. You only post to hate on Ilgauskas which says alot. You have nothing useful to say, so if you want to continue posting show some sort of objectivity. Ilgauskas was our only post player turn up vs the Clips in both games and challenge Brand. You are spookily quiet on bad mouthing other players. Why just pick one player when the faults lately lie elsewhere.

Karma I can't get as mad at you because you seem to speak with some intelligence and a good demeanor unlike some other poster on this board but c'mon Z our best player last game..Is that the same game that Coach Brown had to go thru the defensive rotations again with him after a 1st half time out? Is that the same game that he got out-rebounded by Chris Kaman?
Is that the game where Kaman, Brand, Gooden and Marshall all had as many rebounds or more then Z?

For the record Kaman also had more assists and blocks then Z!!

As far as seeing other holes...Why is it everyone seems to assume they know what I see or am thinking??

This team is lacking an all around point guard, a defensive stopper, a legit power post player and a defensive tenacity and excitement!

The Cavs have 2 better post players then Z on there roster at this point of the season. Gooden has been surprisingly good with opportunities and James just needs to get his butt in the post!

I wanna know what games you guys are watching to be swinging so hard from this guys ding-a-ling.

The guy is awful and the only time he is even a legit contributor to this club is when he is making jumpshots or offensive rebounding. For christ sake that is not what you want from your big man-hell he doesnt even use his turn-around in the post move anymore which was really his only effective move!

His weaknesses far out weigh his strengths and the sooner that the organization and the fans recognize that the better because the rest of the NBA already does!

 

[aaronr]

Just for the record, and I know it's OT, but Jerome James was, is, and always will be a stiff--not without some physical skills, mind you, but without the will to be a player. That he got $30 million from the Knicks speaks only to Isiah Thomas's stupidity and not Jerome James's skills.

 

[Pioneer10]

This team is lacking an all around point guard, a defensive stopper, a legit power post player and a defensive tenacity and excitement!

Put a healthy AV back in and a lot of these worries seem to me to go away. People are underestimating what we lost in AV. Add a seven foot Rodman like player who is all over the place on defense and on the boards to Z, Marshall, and Gooden and suddenly things looks a lot better.

Look Z is not a perfect player and this board seem to polarize him into a guy who is at fault if we lose or on the opposite the only reason we win. He is what he is: a guy who creates a lot of mismatches and can be a force at times off the glass and scoring. Unfortunately he can also get lost at times (not sure how much of this is the team's fault for not finding him OR the fact that Z does NOT do a good job of fighting for post position and making himself an easy target) and has several defensive weaknesses. Looking at it from the long term though, Z provides too much too even come close to labeling as the reason we will never win a championship. Wait to see what the Cavs can do with AV, Z, Marshall, and Gooden - our frontcourt will have pretty much everything you can ask for. A good post presence, two great rebounders, a PF to stretch the floor, and lots and lots of length

 

[ootbttnlagitnbasf]

we signed z over the summer because he was the best center available. z is fundamentally sound. one of the most fundamentally sound centers in the league. this does not make the casual fan happy because they want highlight film plays but z is about as good as any center in the league. if you look at his output last season overall, looking at points, rebounds and blocked shots, he is the second best center to shaquille o'neal. complaining about ilgauskas is worrying about spilt milk. he is ours and we get to watch him for the next few years. just like we get to watch marshall and jones for the next three seasons after this. my concern is that ilgauskas is 30 and will not get younger with age. does anyone here know how long his contract is for? jones and marshall are cav's through 2008-09, i think.