What are the Cavs going to do at C?

[Rist77]

Sweetney wasn't a bad player at all. Weight issues forced him off the court. If you look back, he actually showed a lot of promise.

He's even bigger now... in a recent game a ball rolled by his feet but he couldn't bend down all the way to get it, so the other team got the ball. If a guy that fat can still ball, you know he's got skills.

 

[abraxas]

I'm a believer in Grant but I also am wary of picking TT over Jonas Valanciunas. No doubt TT projects to be a solid player in this league, possibly a Aldridge-type, which would be great. But I can't stop thinking that Jonas will be a star. Teaming him with Kyrie, whether this season or next, had me salivating. Even if we desperately wanted to get rid of JJ, we still have Jamison for the time-being and could've went after a PF next year. I think it was a mistake -- BUT -- I do not think Grant panicked, like people are projecting. I think they have their reasons, it's just a matter of time to see if there reasons are legit. The jury will be out for the next 3-4 years (at least).

I also still don't like the 2nd round trade. I understand they're stockpiling picks, but we still have Jamison, Sessions and possibly Boobie to move, and can surely pick up a few 2nd rounders in those deals. Had we taken JV, Harper might've been a nice project at PF, as he compares to Rashard Lewis. I just feel we need to bring talent in NOW, and we can still stockpile more picks in future deals.

As for a center, I still have hope that they see something in Erden that we haven't been able to see yet. He's long been thought to have good potential but thus far has not been able to show in over here. Give him this season getting 20 mins and see if he can produce. If so, that also frees up our need for Andy, which is our biggest trade chip.

 

[Tornicade]

I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. The Hawks didn't draft Marvin to replace Josh Smith, Smith was still a 19 yr old coming off his rookie season straight from HS, and he played fairly well his rookie year considering. And the Hawks didn't draft a PG the previous draft unless you think Royal Ivey was really in their plans (no, he wasn't). And YES, it is completely understandable that Marvin was BPA at 2 that year. I'm guessing Atlanta was not the only team that had it laid out that way. Again, go back and read the scouting reports (like the one that Tornicade just linked to) and you'll see that everyone was gushing with praise for this guy. Put him and Harrison Barnes coming out together and many teams would've felt safer with picking Marvin. Just saying...

My bad. the hawks just simply thought williams was the better prospect. they were mistaken. They did manage to turn a 13 win team
bt lets take a look at the 04 season

hornets won 18 games, utah 26, portland 27, Charlotte 18, bucks 30,
Hornets 3 playoffs 2 first round exits, 1 semifinal
Charlotte 1 first round loss
Milwaukee 2 playoffs 2 first round exits
Utah 4 playoffs 1 western finals 2 conference semifinals and 1 first round exit
Portland - 3 playoffs 3 first round exits
Atlanta - 4 playoffs 3 conference semifinals 1 first round exit.
Atlanta was the only 1 of the 6 30 and under win teams from that year to goto the playoffs this year. Seems like a pretty succesful rebuild. they also have talent to leverage now.

just for giggles lets look at over 30-40 win clubs
Golden state 1 western conference semifinals
la clippers 1 western conference semifinals
toronto raptors 2 first round exits
Knicks - 1 first round exit
Orlando- 5 playoffs 1 finals, 1 conference finals, 1 conference semifinals, 2 first round exits -
La lakers-6 playoffs won 2 finals, lost a final, 1 western semifinal, 2 first round exit

Orlando kept Grant hill and tony battie while developing young talent.

Lakers kept Kobe, and odom, Chris mihm, brought back derek fisher. 6 guys from that 2005 roster were on the championship team.

sure one had dwight howard and the other kobe bryant but they kept guys worth keeping and leveraged the rest. The other teams gave up what was worth keeping and never went anywhere.

I dont really care for atlanta but outside of one series with orlando. i dont understand why they get so much hate.

anyways Varejao, Gibson and possibly davis will be essential to keep in order for the Franchise to transition into a contender and avoid spinning their wheels the next 6 years.

 

[JimmyJazz]

Why is everyone so threatened by those who say complimentary things about Jonas Valanciunas and who question the selection of Tristan Thompson @ 4?? Isn't that what these boards are for, discussion?? Consider:

-Valanciunas was rated as the higher prospect by all the so-called draft experts.
-Givonoy, Kotoch, and some other draft experts maintained that the Cavaliers liked Valanciunas better than Enes Kanter, who went 3rd to Utah.
-many mock drafts had Valanciunas going to the Cavaliers @ 4.
-there was only one draft expect, Sam Amick, who had Tristan Thompson going as high as 4th. Everyone else had him no higher than 8th to Detroit. Some even had him going in the late lottery.
-at the time of the draft, the Cavaliers seemed to have a bigger need at center than power forward.
-center is traditionally a tougher position to fill than power forward.
-Valanciunas has looked terrific in the FIBA U19 tourney in Europe.


Now, I know draft projections and the opinions of experts are not going to impact which prospects pan out and which don't. However, it was a somewhat controversial pick that certainly merits discussion.

Some of you seemingly have wine & gold colored glasses on and you think the team can do no wrong. You're the blind followers, who apparently feel the team is immune to debate &, dare I say, criticism.

What I don't get is why can't you admit:

1. The 19 year old Valanciunas is a very good center prospect.
2. It's possible the Cavaliers erred in passing on Valanciunas for Thompson, regardless of the buyout issue.

EXCELLENT post!! My thinking is that when you are building a team from the ground up the GM should have final say on personal matters, as the GM should be looking at the long term future of the franchise. IMO Coach Scott had too much input here as he drafted his man to replace JJ. If the plan was to replace JJ, that is fine, however it did not have to be done right here in this draft. Grant should have looked at the long term health of the franchise and drafted by most experts opinion, the better player, Jonas. Jonas IMO and in most experts opinion was the better player of the two. Coach Scott wanted to get rid of JJ ASAP, so he drafted TT, who is a more limited player than Jonas, especially offensively. Jonas is the better shooter hands down. One has to wonder that if this FIBA U19 tourney had finished prior to the draft and the NBA saw Jonas play this well, one has to wonder how high Jonas would have been drafted. A strong case could be made for him as the #2 overall pick, as players like DW are easier to find than centers like Jonas. I am prepared for the mob just take it easy with the torches.

 

[Randolphkeys]

EXCELLENT post!! My thinking is that when you are building a team from the ground up the GM should have final say on personal matters, as the GM should be looking at the long term future of the franchise. IMO Coach Scott had too much input here as he drafted his man to replace JJ. If the plan was to replace JJ, that is fine, however it did not have to be done right here in this draft. Grant should have looked at the long term health of the franchise and drafted by most experts opinion, the better player, Jonas. Jonas IMO and in most experts opinion was the better player of the two. Coach Scott wanted to get rid of JJ ASAP, so he drafted TT, who is a more limited player than Jonas, especially offensively. Jonas is the better shooter hands down. One has to wonder that if this FIBA U19 tourney had finished prior to the draft and the NBA saw Jonas play this well, one has to wonder how high Jonas would have been drafted. A strong case could be made for him as the #2 overall pick, as players like DW are easier to find than centers like Jonas. I am prepared for the mob just take it easy with the torches.

This offseason was the perfect time to move JJ. It is a classic sell high move for a player who was never open to coaching, had some personal issues away from the game, and was about to get overpaid. If anything, I would have liked to see him traded before we drafted TT so that Sacramento wouldn't have as much leverage. Once TT was a Cavalier, it was pretty obvious Hickson wasn't in the plans.

 

[Jon]

It has been stated by many talking heads that Thompson's ability to workout better than Richard Simmons, is actually the main reason we drafted him 4-5 spots higher than anyone expected him to be drafted.

Workouts only affirm (or deny) what you think you already know. The Cavs did make it known what they salivate over are the interviews.

Are you willing to take a kid with clearly lesser talent and upside because of how the background search, personality evaluation, and interview process went?

I'm not saying that's what went down, but I bet CG and DG wouldn't even blink before agreeing they would.

 

[JimmyJazz]

Dealing away JJ is fine, though I don't like the return. The problem is the Cavs drafted a lesser player in TT, instead of taking the more talented player in Jonas. I agree with you that this offseason was a good time to deal JJ. Irving and Jonas should have been the picks, replacing JJ could have happened next year, as Jamison can fill in this year.

 

[Jon]

If anything, I would have liked to see him traded before we drafted TT so that Sacramento wouldn't have as much leverage. Once TT was a Cavalier, it was pretty obvious Hickson wasn't in the plans.

I'm thinking we would have gladly taken Casspi and the #7 pick in the draft for JJ, but given what we ended up with, I seriously doubt that was ever on the table.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I'm thinking we would have gladly taken Casspi and the #7 pick in the draft for JJ, but given what we ended up with, I seriously doubt that was ever on the table.

Agreed. Assuming that they really loved Salmons -and they must have to accept that kind of contract- they came out with more assets for winning short-term. Will Sacramento win in the near future with all of those scorers who break out into hives when they have to pass? Probably not, but JJ for the 7th pick would have left the Kings with less talent up front, that is for sure.

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

JJ is a losing basketball player. Go figure the Kings would trade for him The Queens made Cleveland the best offer. Their isn't a huge market for losing basketball players. I can see why people are upset about the draft but JJ is a total non-factor imo. Addition by subtraction. Once we trade Jamison, the Big 3 of losing (mo, jj, hickson) will be gone.

 

[The Voice]

I just wish they would of kept the summer league. We could be watching Thompson and seeing with our own eyes what he is good/bad at and his potential. This sucks.

Why? Hickson tore it up in the summer league, hell so did Shannon Brown.

 

[The Voice]

Workouts only affirm (or deny) what you think you already know. The Cavs did make it known what they salivate over are the interviews.

Are you willing to take a kid with clearly lesser talent and upside because of how the background search, personality evaluation, and interview process went?

I'm not saying that's what went down, but I bet CG and DG wouldn't even blink before agreeing they would.

After the LeBron fiasco, I think Gilbert has changed his business strategy like any good tycoon would.

 

[Scholar]

I also still don't like the 2nd round trade. I understand they're stockpiling picks, but we still have Jamison, Sessions and possibly Boobie to move, and can surely pick up a few 2nd rounders in those deals. Had we taken JV, Harper might've been a nice project at PF, as he compares to Rashard Lewis. I just feel we need to bring talent in NOW, and we can still stockpile more picks in future deals.

I really feel that the Cav's braintrust believes that there is a high probability that this season is going to be lost to the lockout. Many of their moves fit that direction. This one certainly does. Think about the number of rookies coming into camp next year and not this year if there is no season. Two drafts worth of players. Frankly, they don't have room for that player taken with this past draft's second round pick in that case.

Of all of the moves that Grant is taking heat for on these boards, trading that 2nd round pick bothers me the least.

 

[Pavlovic3Ball]

1. Summer league is deceiving. Marco Bellinelli was the Michael Jordan of summer league. 2. Why are people so hung up on the 2nd round picks? The cavs didn't see anyone they wanted, and they made a move for the future. Are people really that upset we didn't keep Harper? The kid is a soft 3 point shooting tweener that will fit right into the magic's system. As for the Rashard Lewis comparison, I really don't see it besides being able to shoot the 3 ball. Harper is way more of a tweener. Lewis can adquately play both the 3 and 4 spots, was a superior athlete, and had a underrated mid-post game on Seattle. I just don't see harper fittng here. If Lebron was here, sure, he could help against double teams. Buti don't see a lot of upside in him.

 

[ChewyOH]

If they assumed this lockout will wipe out next season then why not take JV? Also my big complaint about the 2nd round is not they should have kept Harper, it is Honeycutt was there why not take him? he is a good talent.