Freddie Kitchens: vaguely employed

Norm · Oct 11, 2019

AZ_ said:
I'm sorry, but this is just excuse making for a level of play that has been unacceptable for a QB.

Get rid of the ball, stop being gun shy and NOT throwing it as we've seen on tape. If you're that skiddish about the offensive line plan, then he wouldn't be so hesitant to let it fly as often as we've seen.

It's just a terrible excuse that would signify, if nothing else, a mentally fragile QB who has been completely unable to adjust his game to the point that elevates his play to an acceptable level.

Only the Riddick can truly tell if someone is skiddish.

JDailey23 · Oct 11, 2019

AZ_ said:
If Baker continues this trend and level of play, why in the world wouldn't you explore bringing in another QB this off-season?

I mean you simply have to be better at this position. And if your football IQ is so low that practice pass rush forces you to be this bad, then its a pretty good sign that your QB doesn't have what it takes to win at this level.

I mean, always exploring a way to get better is perfectly fine, but even the thought of it after 18 games is nonsense. Now if he goes 12/40int rest of the year, okay, maybe we can talk, but I don't see in any realm that Dorsey or Kichens (assuming he gets another year) look at another QB. Id assume they'd go all in into protecting him and giving him more ways to put him in position to succeed than to admit blowing the #1 overall pick in less than 2 full seasons.

AZ_ · Oct 11, 2019

JDailey23 said:
I mean, always exploring a way to get better is perfectly fine, but even the thought of it after 18 games is nonsense. Now if he goes 12/40int rest of the year, okay, maybe we can talk, but I don't see in any realm that Dorsey or Kichens (assuming he gets another year) look at another QB. Id assume they'd go all in into protecting him and giving him more ways to put him in position to succeed than to admit blowing the #1 overall pick in less than 2 full seasons.

Literally nobody is talking about "giving up," but they HAVE to bring in another draft pick at QB if this trend continues.

They'd be idiots not to.

I'd give Baker roughly 40-50 starts to prove that he can be an average or slightly above average QB in this league, as I initially predicted.

If he can beat that, I'm happy. But if we're going to spend the next two seasons talking about how delicate he is that he's completely unable to improve due to the practice pass rush, then you're fucked.

Just tremendously fucked.

bob2the2nd · Oct 11, 2019

@AZ_ we got it, you hate Mayfield. You have never liked him, ever. Going back for years you hated him. So these ridiculous statements like the browns need to replace him are just insane. We got it dude, you dont like baker for whatever reason. But give it a damn rest. We all agree Baker is playing like shit, but this is after he absolutely destroyed teams last year. He didnt just accidentally break the rookie record for TDs, or lead this team to its best season in a fucking decade. He didnt just stumble into being the number 1 pick, or placing in the top 3 for the heisman 3 times.

He is playing like shit, and he needs to get better but your outtakes are getting old

AZ_ · Oct 11, 2019

bob2the2nd said:
@AZ_ we got it, you hate Mayfield. You have never liked him, ever. Going back for years you hated him. So these ridiculous statements like the browns need to replace him are just insane. We got it dude, you dont like baker for whatever reason. But give it a damn rest. We all agree Baker is playing like shit, but this is after he absolutely destroyed teams last year. He didnt just accidentally break the rookie record for TDs, or lead this team to its best season in a fucking decade. He didnt just stumble into being the number 1 pick, or placing in the top 3 for the heisman 3 times.

He is playing like shit, and he needs to get better but your outtakes are getting old

The Heisman, now...

Christ.

I don't care, and you're just making shit up about saying that I want to replace him now.

Put me back on ignore if you're not actually going to read or acknowledge the actual arguments I'm making.

Get a hold of yourself, man.

I'mWithDan · Oct 11, 2019

Me coming in to this thread, ready to talk about scheme, staff, X's and O's....

Me after reading the thread of recent exchanges....

AZ_ · Oct 11, 2019

I'mWithDan said:
Me coming in to this thread, ready to talk about scheme, staff, X's and O's....

Then reading the thread of recent exchanges....

I've tried, man....

I've posted about half a dozen articles now, each one detailing a hesitant Mayfield and depicting his clear misses.

We're just going to baby him and say he's scared, but that it isn't indicative of Football IQ or anything else bad.

He finished Top 3 in the Heisman race, for 3 years. And played well last year, so we all just have to shut up and blame something else regardless of what the tape suggests.

JDailey23 · Oct 11, 2019

AZ_ said:
Literally nobody is talking about "giving up," but they HAVE to bring in another draft pick at QB if this trend continues.

They'd be idiots not to.

I'd give Baker roughly 40-50 starts to prove that he can be an average or slightly above average QB in this league, as I initially predicted.

If he can beat that, I'm happy. But if we're going to spend the next two seasons talking about how delicate he is that he's completely unable to improve due to the practice pass rush, then you're fucked.

Just tremendously fucked.

40-50 starts is definitely expected and should be given, but unless you're talking about a 4th-7th round pick as a potential project/backup, you can draft anyone until 2021 draft. When reading your post, it came off as looking at replacing him in April in this draft.

JDailey23 · Oct 11, 2019

AZ_ said:
I've tried, man....

I've posted about half a dozen articles now, each one detailing a hesitant Mayfield and depicting his clear misses.

We're just going to baby him and say he's scared, but that it isn't indicative of Football IQ or anything else bad.

He finished Top 3 in the Heisman race, for 3 years. And played well last year, so we all just have to shut up and blame something else regardless of what the tape suggests.

You need to stop. We have all admitted that he has blown this year, but we all, except for you, don't think its just Baker. Some blame the coaches, some the line, some the plays, some say he might be scared and not trusting things, but we are all behind him and think its just a hiccup. His history points to something not jiving, you....you just think he sucks and you were never behind him.

Jordan · Oct 11, 2019

AZ_ said:
Literally nobody is talking about "giving up," but they HAVE to bring in another draft pick at QB if this trend continues.

They'd be idiots not to.

I'd give Baker roughly 40-50 starts to prove that he can be an average or slightly above average QB in this league, as I initially predicted.

If he can beat that, I'm happy. But if we're going to spend the next two seasons talking about how delicate he is that he's completely unable to improve due to the practice pass rush, then you're fucked.

Just tremendously fucked.

Honest question, doesn't 40-50 starts imply the rest of this season and all of next season? Would the idea be to draft a mid-round QB? Because using a top pick on a QB if the plan is to still guarantee Baker a spot, I think that's a bad idea.

The fact is, we know Baker played well last year and that he is really struggling this year. I said it broadly, and @bob2the2nd did the actual math, but second year QBs usually regress, or at the very least not improve. Obviously it is talking about a mean QB who started the year prior, but still, it is not surprising that Baker has played worse than last year. The concern is that he is playing much worse than last season.

My guess is that we get beat pretty badly by Seattle this weekend. I am also optimistic that, given the bye week and soft schedule, the second half of the season will be much better.

AZ_ · Oct 11, 2019

JDailey23 said:
You need to stop. We have all admitted that he has blown this year, but we all, except for you, don't think its just Baker. Some blame the coaches, some the line, some the plays, some say he might be scared and not trusting things, but we are all behind him and think its just a hiccup. His history points to something not jiving, you....you just think he sucks and you were never behind him.

Make whichever excuse makes you feel most good about it.

Whine about me not being behind him enough, like that matters.

I'm not going to stop, and you're going to have to deal with it. I'll happily come on here and commend him when he plays well, as I have.

But its not my fault that you can't emotionally handle when I discuss the bad. Stop making it personal, stop whining about your perception of how much I'm "rooting" for him.

We're all rooting for him, thats what makes this frustrating.

AZ_ · Oct 11, 2019

jking948 said:
Honest question, doesn't 40-50 starts imply the rest of this season and all of next season? Would the idea be to draft a mid-round QB? Because using a top pick on a QB if the plan is to still guarantee Baker a spot, I think that's a bad idea.

The fact is, we know Baker played well last year and that he is really struggling this year. I said it broadly, and @bob2the2nd did the actual math, but second year QBs usually regress, or at the very least not improve. Obviously it is talking about a mean QB who started the year prior, but still, it is not surprising that Baker has played worse than last year. The concern is that he is playing much worse than last season.

My guess is that we get beat pretty badly by Seattle this weekend. I am also optimistic that, given the bye week and soft schedule, the second half of the season will be much better.

Why not bring in an early-mid round QB?

1. You're protecting yourself if, in fact, Baker continues to suck as bad as he has, and we inevitably run out of excuses.

2. If he's great, then you've upgraded from Garrett Gilbert and protected yourself in case Baker, who gets regularly crushed by a terrible offensive line if he holds onto the ball, gets hurt.

3. Long-term, if Baker establishes himself, then you have a young backup QB in an elite offense which usually turns into future draft capital anyway.

Where is the downside? Baker's psyche? Not buying it.

JDailey23 · Oct 11, 2019

AZ_ said:
Make whichever excuse makes you feel most good about it.

Whine about me not being behind him enough, like that matters.

I'm not going to stop, and you're going to have to deal with it. I'll happily come on here and commend him when he plays well, as I have.

But its not my fault that you can't emotionally handle when I discuss the bad. Stop making it personal, stop whining about your perception of how much I'm "rooting" for him.

We're all rooting for him, thats what makes this frustrating.

I was just replying to everyone else because you're a broken record and its getting old because we are all frustrated. BTW, no one thinks you're rooting for him. Your constant "videos" of what's wrong comes off more as a "See, I told ya so". Then, you keep talking about how great Lamar is, when he isn't passing the eye test as a QB either, but you continually put him, an arch rival, on a pedestal. Thats why its getting old and obnoxious.

Lee · Oct 11, 2019

AZ_ said:
Literally nobody is talking about "giving up," but they HAVE to bring in another draft pick at QB if this trend continues.

They'd be idiots not to.

I'd give Baker roughly 40-50 starts to prove that he can be an average or slightly above average QB in this league, as I initially predicted.

If he can beat that, I'm happy. But if we're going to spend the next two seasons talking about how delicate he is that he's completely unable to improve due to the practice pass rush, then you're fucked.

Just tremendously fucked.

You cant draft a QB this year, to early after spending #1 overall and looking good year 1.

If this continues this year and next year, then you have to draft a qb next year in round 1. Sucks.

This assumes allot, like Baker doesn't right the ship, and that QB play has been mostly what is wrong with our offense.

I think the line is flawed, but has given Baker average time to throw per stats. Our receivers are open, per stats. Baker is holding ball too long per stats. Baker is missing open receivers per stats.

So my assumptions is it has been qb play in 4 of 5 games, and I think you agree. But, I think he can right the ship personally, I am praying he can atleast. We have both seen good Baker, he is out there, lets hope he comes back.

AZ_ · Oct 11, 2019

JDailey23 said:
I was just replying to everyone else because you're a broken record and its getting old because we are all frustrated. BTW, no one thinks you're rooting for him. Your constant "videos" of what's wrong comes off more as a "See, I told ya so". Then, you keep talking about how great Lamar is, when he isn't passing the eye test as a QB either, but you continually put him, an arch rival, on a pedestal. Thats why its getting old and obnoxious.

I'm sorry if a logical, reasonable argument using recent history and video is so offensive to people just because they're also Browns fans.

Stop being so emotional over a sports take.

That would be my advice to you, in this particular situation.

You're a big boy, you can take it.

When and if Mayfield plays well, like he did in Week 4, I promise I'll say lots of nice things.

Freddie Kitchens: vaguely employed

What grade to you give the Browns for hiring Freddie Kitchens as their next Head Coach?

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