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Get Excited Somewhere Else: John Dorsey

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The Wizard of Moz said:
Not a doubt in my mind Sashi would have us in the playoffs

We’d miss out on stellar ex Chiefs like Harris, but it’s the small price we’d have to pay
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Cory Coleman is available if you really want to relive those good times

Edit: Nvm, he plays for the Giants.
 
Amherstcavsfan said:
Stop being dramatic and back up your points.
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Not sure what you have done at all to back up your point. Just pointed to second year players and rookies without getting time to develop?

You don’t fire Dorsey. You’re part of the major issue at hand of the fans and media forcing people out that’s lead to the horrible culture here.

Quite honestly at some point you have to stick with a guy you believe in for longer than 2 seasons. And I’m sticking with the one who has proven track record in a much larger sample size than 2 seasons here.
 
Amherstcavsfan said:
It is not a crapshoot. You get plenty of data on why some players are good and why some are traps.

It was clear as day that a guy like Nick Chubb was going to be a good player, while a turd like Chad Thomas exists. Most people knew this from the moment they were drafted. Athletic profiles and game tape really reveal all.



I believe Baker has plenty of talent and has been squandered by poor coaching. Chad Thomas being garbage isn't coaching. Greedy Williams being softer than baby shit isn't coaching. That's just what they are and who they have become in the NFL. There isn't a system alive that makes that Hubbard contract look good. Lest we forget the wasted pick of Antonio Callaway and how they basically ruined Higgins to try and give Callaway every break in the world.



It's not it really. Again, Greg Robinson, the RG situation, Callaway, Chris Hubbard, having no depth on the defensive line, hiring a rookie coach. These are all serious problems that weren't really addressed this off season that have killed this team over the course of the season.



I've never said give up on the QB nor the GM at the moment. To act like you are acting, defending both to the death, is asinine and short sighted. Dorsey has failed in multiple areas of the team. Baker Mayfield has been a DISASTER in year 2. They get one more season to right their wrongs before both are getting replaced.



I don't need to let anything rest. Dorsey has underperformed. He took 5 top 100 picks in a very strong draft and so far the only return on those picks is Nick Chubb being amazing. He failed with FA signings, his trades have been at best average, and we don't need to get into his coaching decisions of keeping Hue and hiring Freddie.

He deserves every bit of criticism that he's getting right now.
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Again, do I need to show the data on New England and Baltimore drafts the last 5 years? The draft is a crap shoot. You are literally making shit up at this point.
 
Triplethreat said:
Not sure what you have done at all to back up your point. Just pointed to second year players and rookies without getting time to develop?

You don’t fire Dorsey. You’re part of the major issue at hand of the fans and media forcing people out that’s lead to the horrible culture here.

Quite honestly at some point you have to stick with a guy you believe in for longer than 2 seasons. And I’m sticking with the one who has proven track record in a much larger sample size than 2 seasons here.
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I agree with sticking with Dorsey, but at this point you pretty much have to admit Sashi firing looks more and more stupid by the week (it always looked stupid) and that Dorsey is objectively doing poorly
 
The Wizard of Moz said:
I agree with sticking with Dorsey, but at this point you pretty much have to admit Sashi firing looks more and more stupid by the week (it always looked stupid) and that Dorsey is objectively doing poorly
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Thats not objective. It’s very subjective.

He made a horrific coaching hire, however outside of that I like what he has done with this roster on the offensive side of the ball.

The main issues we have right now are not roster construction, it’s coaching not getting the best out of our players and our supposed franchise QB playing horrible, albeit in an atrocious scheme.

I think if you can get a guy who commands respect after having success in the league already (McCarthy, Harbaugh, Rivera) this team would have discipline and play with much more fire.
 
Triplethreat said:
Thats not objective. It’s very subjective.

He made a horrific coaching hire, however outside of that I like what he has done with this roster on the offensive side of the ball.

The main issues we have right now are not roster construction, it’s coaching not getting the best out of our players and our supposed franchise QB playing horrible, albeit in an atrocious scheme.

I think if you can get a guy who commands respect after having success in the league already (McCarthy, Harbaugh, Rivera) this team would have discipline and play with much more fire.
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You consistently call this offensive line trash.

So how are you okay with the roster construction?
 
DirtyDan said:
You consistently call this offensive line trash.

So how are you okay with the roster construction?
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Okay the offensive line is trash, but the scheme is infinitely worse at this point.

I think a genuinely good, respected coach has this team 10-6/11-5 with the current roster.

With that said, you can’t address every single roster hole in 2 seasons? So that doesn’t fall on Dorsey. He clearly has a plan in place where now he is going to go out and address that issue. it’s very commonplace that when you hire a GM they have a minimum of 5 years to overhaul their roster and get to a place where you’re consistently winning.

2 years is simply far too short to do shit, especially when he took over we had gone 0-16.
 
Triplethreat said:
Okay the offensive line is trash, but the scheme is infinitely worse at this point.

I think a genuinely good, respected coach has this team 10-6/11-5 with the current roster.

With that said, you can’t address every single roster hole in 2 seasons? So that doesn’t fall on Dorsey. He clearly has a plan in place where now he is going to go out and address that issue. it’s very commonplace that when you hire a GM they have a minimum of 5 years to overhaul their roster and get to a place where you’re consistently winning.

2 years is simply far too short to do shit, especially when he took over we had gone 0-16.
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Dorsey tried to address the offensive line though. He fucking failed. You're the one criticizing Dorsey when you bring up the offensive line.

Signing Hubbard, Robinson, and drafting Corbett. Failing to sign any depth for either tackle spots. Dorsey half-assed one of the most important spots on the field.

It's okay, you can criticize Dorsey. No one is gonna think any less of you
 
DirtyDan said:
Dorsey tried to address the offensive line though. He fucking failed. You're the one criticizing Dorsey when you bring up the offensive line.

Signing Hubbard, Robinson, and drafting Corbett. Failing to sign any depth for either tackle spots. Dorsey half-assed one of the most important spots on the field.

It's okay, you can criticize Dorsey. No one is gonna think any less of you
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But I can acknowledge there is a plan there to address it.

I realize there is no way in actual hell you can address all the holes an 0-16 team had in 2 off seasons no matter how many draft picks you had.

You have to have some perspective.

There is no criticism from me. I wish we had a better o line. I think we would be much better if it was addressed, but it’s not and it’s a hole he has to address going forward.
 
I need to see more.

Not of freddie Tho.
 
We’ve reached the “the draft is a crapshoot anyway” portion of the season to defend these bums.

Yes, teams miss on drafts.

But the fact of the matter is even when they miss on a specific draft, they have a talent core, player development system and culture to get them through it.

The Browns do not have that locked in quite yet. Dorsey is doing this franchise a disservice in his coaching hires and the ability to install player development and culture that is consistent with the best franchises in the NFL.

It’s abhorrent, it’s short sighted. It’s unacceptable, full stop.
 
Triplethreat said:
Not sure what you have done at all to back up your point. Just pointed to second year players and rookies without getting time to develop?

You don’t fire Dorsey. You’re part of the major issue at hand of the fans and media forcing people out that’s lead to the horrible culture here.

Quite honestly at some point you have to stick with a guy you believe in for longer than 2 seasons. And I’m sticking with the one who has proven track record in a much larger sample size than 2 seasons here.
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I can use other examples.

Hubbard for lots of money.
Releasing Carl Nassib
Trading Jason McCourtey for a 7th rounder

Further, I didn't say they should fire Dorsey. But while Freddie is (rightfully) taking heat, Dorsey is equally culpable

He has used up his grace period, in 2020 it's time for results or he needs to move on.
 
Amherstcavsfan said:
I can use other examples.

Hubbard for lots of money.
Releasing Carl Nassib
Trading Jason McCourtey for a 7th rounder

Further, I didn't say they should fire Dorsey. But while Freddie is (rightfully) taking heat, Dorsey is equally culpable

He has used up his grace period, in 2020 it's time for results or he needs to move on.
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You don’t give a GM 2 years.

Again, you’re part of the group that has been a major issue for this organization in putting pressure on our higher ups to instill change when there has not been enough time.
 
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