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I know someone else has said it before, but I cant help but think: what if the players got it done 2016? Or 2017? Both? This would change the perception drastically I imagine. Especially in baseball the margin is razor thin. Those teams were easily good enough to win and the players just flat out choked it away- not really Dolan’s fault, and I’m the furthest thing from a Dolan shill.

We’d probably all still be drunk from the celebration. I think that’s where a lot of the Indians angst comes from. Cavs got over the hump. The Browns haven’t been close in 30 years. The Indians, even in my 30 years of life, have come infuriatingly close many times. And they’ve had teams (2017) that didn’t come that close but were incredibly strong and lost to lesser teams. Odds would tell me the Tribe would breakthrough and win in one of these instances but they haven’t.

I get it, frankly. Separating the economics of baseball and Dolan and spending from the equation, I get the general frustration. A WS would honestly mean more to me than a Superbowl. Hopefully we all get to see one someday.

I’m on the same boat. A WS would mean more to me than a Super Bowl. It blows my mind that the city of Cleveland still embraces the Browns like they do. I know it will always be a football town, but we’ve seen 20 years of shit. How anyone can still get up year after year and cheer blows my mind. Indians have been consistent since the 90s with a handful of down years mixed in.
 
Get these sorry fucks out and get a new owner and if your ok with Indians being financial capped shame on you there's over 600 billionaires in US find one that's welling to spend to retain talent. The Indians will never win chip with these cheap ass muthsfuckers and that how most of northeast OHIO feels.

If that's true, then most of northeast OHIO is fucking stupid.

The Indians had a 3-1 lead in the 2016 Series. They also were tied in the bottom of the ninth of Game Seven of that series. If you think that their inability to win that championship was because of their "cheap ass" owners rather than the largely-random chance of winning a particular game, I don't know what to tell you.
 
I’m on the same boat. A WS would mean more to me than a Super Bowl. It blows my mind that the city of Cleveland still embraces the Browns like they do. I know it will always be a football town, but we’ve seen 20 years of shit. How anyone can still get up year after year and cheer blows my mind. Indians have been consistent since the 90s with a handful of down years mixed in.

Agree 100%. My personal pecking order is Cavs > Indians > Browns. I want all three to do well ... but if I have to choose, that's my order.

That said -- the Indians have been by far the most fun of the three to root for over the past however-many years. Not just because they've had the most sustained success on the field, but also because they have the smartest of the three front offices and make the most consistently intelligent decisions. Really hope that they can win the sausage one of these years -- not just because of my fan-rooting interest, but also because I want to see Antonetti/Chernoff/Tito/friends validated.
 
We should have a baseball economics thread. I like the idea but I also like a separate thread for offseason news and rumors so if I see a new post in it I quickly check to see what happened. My view on the economics is that a MLB salary cap could do more harm than good depending on the tradeoffs needed to get one from the players union.
 
Pretty much this. When those cheapsakes thought it ok to trade away 2 Cy Young pitchers was the day I decided I would never spend another cent on the Indians till they were gone. They are in fact cheap and try nickle and diming both their fan base and players. And when they do have a winning team they will stop at nothing to let those players walk or trade them for prospects that MAY be good down the road. Why the hell would any casual fan waste both their time and money on something that you know they won't support financially. Could you imagine if Gund/Gilbert did the same thing with LBJ when his extension came up? I get it the economics of baseball are beyond terrible, and it badly needs a salary cap. But, that's not my damn problem it's theirs and if they can't figure it out sell the damn team, it's as simple as that. Fuck the Dolans! they have cost the team multiple chances at a chip and they NEVER be able build any kind of sustainable success because they're greedy bastard, someone mention marketing and was correct the optic and the reality are they need to sale the team to you know... someone that can actually afford.
Preach on!!! We need more posts like this in the Indians section!
 
Can you people take this shit to the Dolan/attendance thread? I’d like to get back to bitching about the Astros or you know, actually discussing the team we have.

In fairness, they already decided the team wasn't good enough.

So the season may as well be cancelled.
 
Hypothetical:

In an alternative universe, the Tribe are using technology to steal signs in the 2016 World Series.
Chapman throws his 3-2 (count) hanging slider to Santana, and instead of Los sitting on 100 mph, he knows the slider is coming and hits the first walk off G7 homer in the WS since 1960.

Years later it's revealed that he had advanced knowledge of what pitch was coming, and there is a groundswell of rancor towards the Indians organization.

Do your intial feelings of utter ecstacy morph into a memory that is tainted and even ambivalent? I honestly don't know.
 
Scott Brosius' son claims that MLB knew about the cheating, but weren't going to do anything until it was public, and that Mike Trout is on HGH for a thyroid issue. Account has since been deleted.

 
Hypothetical:

In an alternative universe, the Tribe are using technology to steal signs in the 2016 World Series.
Chapman throws his 3-2 (count) hanging slider to Santana, and instead of Los sitting on 100 mph, he knows the slider is coming and hits the first walk off G7 homer in the WS since 1960.

Years later it's revealed that he had advanced knowledge of what pitch was coming, and there is a groundswell of rancor towards the Indians organization.

Do your intial feelings of utter ecstacy morph into a memory that is tainted and even ambivalent? I honestly don't know.

Still doesn’t take away from the feeling of euphoria I had at the time they won. Will I look at it different? Honestly can’t say. Maybe a little?
 
Still doesn’t take away from the feeling of euphoria I had at the time they won. Will I look at it different? Honestly can’t say. Maybe a little?

Agree completely with this. It can come out years from now that somehow the Cavs cheated for 2016 and it would take away how we all felt that night.
 
I'll will go into greater detail tomorrow or maybe over the weekend on your many point and I will flat out say you right in for the most part since you seem to be level head and not some Dolan shill. Would you agree with me the one of biggiest obstacles to the Indians winning a chip is the Dolans willing to spend. If Dan fucken Gilbert was the owner would they be in better much place? Answer the question honestly? We have a great front office but terrible owners and I can stress this cheap ownership. We have Francisco Lindor who is a generational type player but because they won't pay the man his gone as a casual fan this beyond frustrating. Why should me as casual fan put money in the team if they can't retain talent and are essentially a farm team for the Yankees. Casuals like me aren't going invest in something that ownership doesn't financially give a fuck. And the fucked up thing if they would just build a true winner and substain it while putting REAL money in then what many considers a pretender would look like a contender. Look at St Louis they put in more money year after year then the Indians. It's plain simple. If they they want more fans to come park spend real dough and stop nickle and diming. Like I said before I understand MLB is fucked and unless it changes cap/floor wise will go the way of the dodo once the TV contracts are up. The optics are the Dolans are cheap as shit, like seriously cheap whatever you craze homers think is not going to change a single one of minds. The city of Cleveland deserves much, much, better even an asshole like Marc Cuban would be leagues better then what current got. I have no idea why you defend these broke fucks but maybe you defend minimum wages I dunno. Get these sorry fucks out and get a new owner and if your ok with Indians being financial capped shame on you there's over 600 billionaires in US find one that's welling to spend to retain talent. The Indians will never win chip with these cheap ass muthsfuckers and that how most of northeast OHIO feels.

The biggest issue to spending really isn’t the Dolans it’s MLB itself. You are looking at this issue from a fans point of view and not a business. Dolans are running a business and they have been running the team at the minimum profit level they have set. I am sorry that you don’t like this logic from a standpoint as a fan, but they have certain things they have to reach money wise.

Though to be honest, if you hate how the Indians are running things, how do you think the Rays fans feel? They run on usually 70mil area, but are almost always a team you hate to face. Take it or leave it, but if you don’t like way the team is ran then either put up with it or follow another team. I want everyone that posts on here to be able to have good discussions even if they have different opinions.

Now i was a Dolan hater for a long time, so I don’t have 100% love for the ownership myself, but Dolan trusts his FOs opinion now and is willing to add on cap if he needs too. He traded for Miller and took his contract and each season during the season they have been adding on payroll so they can win more games. This has kept a sustainable winning team for years and we have been resigning guys. Don’t be mad at the Dolans for not resigning Lindor since Lindor’s advising team is telling him to wait to free agent. That isn’t Dolans fault since they did offer him a contract a few years ago. Does this 100% fix my perception of the Dolans, no, but like AZ_ on the boards here, I at least respect them and acknowledge they aren’t so bad after all.
 
Hey everyone, been away a bit lately. Just catching up on the thread in here.

I'll will go into greater detail tomorrow or maybe over the weekend on your many point and I will flat out say you right in for the most part since you seem to be level head and not some Dolan shill. Would you agree with me the one of biggiest obstacles to the Indians winning a chip is the Dolans willing to spend. If Dan fucken Gilbert was the owner would they be in better much place? Answer the question honestly? We have a great front office but terrible owners and I can stress this cheap ownership. We have Francisco Lindor who is a generational type player but because they won't pay the man his gone as a casual fan this beyond frustrating. Why should me as casual fan put money in the team if they can't retain talent and are essentially a farm team for the Yankees. Casuals like me aren't going invest in something that ownership doesn't financially give a fuck. And the fucked up thing if they would just build a true winner and substain it while putting REAL money in then what many considers a pretender would look like a contender. Look at St Louis they put in more money year after year then the Indians. It's plain simple. If they they want more fans to come park spend real dough and stop nickle and diming. Like I said before I understand MLB is fucked and unless it changes cap/floor wise will go the way of the dodo once the TV contracts are up. The optics are the Dolans are cheap as shit, like seriously cheap whatever you craze homers think is not going to change a single one of minds. The city of Cleveland deserves much, much, better even an asshole like Marc Cuban would be leagues better then what current got. I have no idea why you defend these broke fucks but maybe you defend minimum wages I dunno. Get these sorry fucks out and get a new owner and if your ok with Indians being financial capped shame on you there's over 600 billionaires in US find one that's welling to spend to retain talent. The Indians will never win chip with these cheap ass muthsfuckers and that how most of northeast OHIO feels.

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