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Andre Drummond - LeBron's Robin
- Thread starter bleedwineandgold03
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He's talking about Porzingis but...
"This is a picture of what the future of the 5 is going to look like,'' Carlisle said. "A guy with great length, who can shoot long-range, drive, pass, protect the rim, rebound, and know how to play the game."
"This is a picture of what the future of the 5 is going to look like,'' Carlisle said. "A guy with great length, who can shoot long-range, drive, pass, protect the rim, rebound, and know how to play the game."
Cavatt
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I question this just because of how few 7 foot guys in the world there are. No doubt, everyone is just going to be a better shooter. Ever taller guys are coming in shooting better. Still though, guys that big are just not so nimble. Porzingus, Anthony Davis, even Embiid are extreme outliers for how quick they are. I doubt there will be a high proportion of those guys in the league.
It's going to be centers TT's size that can shoot is my guess. Shot blocking will be less of a thing, and no one will care.
What he is referencing technically individual stat but it does not show what the team DRtg or ORtg is with him on the floor. The two are different. The stat looks positive because its showing how well the player he guards can score. Not how opponents team scores when he is on the court.
It's confusing because one site shows it one way and some the other but either way calls it the same stat DRtg ORtg. They should just rename one of them.
I look at on/off and see a totally different story. Our team ORtg is 102.1 with him on and our opponents ORtg is 129.6
Difference of -27.5 and our team without him is -7.3 total difference -20.2
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ansatsusha80
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It especially difficult for them to explain when there are so many different places creating stats.
ansatsusha80
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I think PER is useless even many people acknowledged it doesnt tell the whole story but the league still uses it.
Plus/minus doesn't make sense because a player can go 12/20,score 30-something points,have 7 assists, 4 rebounds and a steal but get a minus. Meanwhile, a player can go 5/16,score 14 pts,14 rebounds but get a +10 or whatever.
Defensive and offensive rating needs to be explained more.
I don't understand,why people are making a simple game complicated when it shouldnt be.
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This is not true, at all. FYI, and the veteran posters know this, but I do stats for part of my living and i used to have an NBA stats blog.
The ORTG and DRTG you see on basketball-reference is nearly the same thing you see on NBA.com. The difference is it includes box score stats to try and adjust for individual play. It still is very reliant on the other nine players on the court because there is no regression. It is a team stat that looks at the team’s defense when one guy is on the court while being indifferent to who he is playing with or against.
Once you get it, not so bad. Say nba stats show a offensive rating of 98. That means the team scored 98 in 100 possessions while that player was on the floor and the same goes for defense.
If your on basketball reference and stats show offensive rating of 98. That means if that player had 100 possessions he would be on Pace to generate (points ast ft etc) 98 points
The thing about the last one is a player may only have a few possessions and make good on them. He sit around the rest of the game and do nothing and still sport a great rating.
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The account holder for sport reference sites says something different.
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I hope Bickerstaff tells Drummond to chill with the ballhandling...it needs to stop.
Hey, I'm the official Reddit account for the Sports-Reference sites. Here's a long-winded explanation of what the deal is with these.
The confusion here is that our Offensive/Defensive Rating is a different stat from NBA.com's, which is the version that's more widely used. We're using a stat developed by Dean Oliver in 2004 to measure, as Dean puts it, "the number of points produced by a player per hundred total individual possessions. In other words, 'How many points is a player likely to generate when he tries?'" (meaning unlike team stat the player has to be involved to generate stats) This is calculated largely using player stats like points, assists, etc. The only team stats that go into the calculations are used to determine possessions or figure out what proportion of team's numbers an individual is responsible for.
The NBA uses the same name for their version of O/DRtg, but it measures something different: the points a team scores/allows per 100 possessions with a player is on the floor. Here, there are no individual level stats, it's only based on team numbers with a player on the floor.
There are advantages and disadvantages to each methodology (this is a good blog post breaking those down: http://thebrooklyngame.com/stat-corner-offensive-defensive-rating/). When we added the PbP data needed to calculate the NBA's version of O/DRtg, we didn't want to have two stats with the same name on our site, so we went with On/Off. What we call OnCourt is the team's NRtg when a player's on the floor and what we call On/Off is the difference in a team's NRtg when the player plays vs when he sits.
We try to have as much info as possible, so we carry both versions of the stat. You can see more in-depth on/off numbers for a player on their on/off page, linked to in a tab on the menu bar at the top of a player's page (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/on-off/2018)
TL;DR: ORtg/DRtg on our site is an estimate of how many points a player produced/allowed per 100 possessions used/defended. It's much more focused individual performance while what NBA.com calles ORtg/DRtg is about measuring how an individual affects team performance.
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We're using a stat developed by Dean Oliver in 2004 to measure, as Dean puts it, "the number of points produced by a player per hundred total individual possessions. In other words, 'How many points is a player likely to generate when he tries?'" (meaning unlike team stat the player has to be involved to generate stats) This is calculated largely using player stats like points, assists, etc.
OK, but what if a player is an excellent 3-point shooter and he goes and stands in the corner? The opponent's best defensive player mans up on him. On the other side of the floor his teammates run a pick-and-roll and score. You could argue that the player was "not involved" in that possession so he shouldn't be credited, but if he drew the opponent's best defender away from the ball and created a mismatch somewhere else then he was involved.
Same thing on defense. If a defender does a great job of denying an entry pass to the post late in the clock and the opponent's guard is forced to throw up a contested three-pointer as the clock expires then the defender was responsible for the missed shot even though his man never touched the ball.
I'm not sure trying to define which players were "involved" in each play so as to improve the individual ratings is actually effective. Sometimes the involvement isn't readily obvious.
As for Andre Drummond, he played in the blowout against Miami on Dwyane Wade night, which was kind of a perfect storm of a bad game. With only six Cavs games on his plate that one bad game skews his stats. Looking at his defensive rating over 50 games with the Pistons he was actually one of the better defenders on the team. Part of that was he gets a lot of steals. Just based on watching him for a few games I wouldn't say he's an elite defensive player by any means. He's more of a Kevin Love type - his game is scoring and defensive rebounds.
OK, but what if a player is an excellent 3-point shooter and he goes and stands in the corner? The opponent's best defensive player mans up on him. On the other side of the floor his teammates run a pick-and-roll and score. You could argue that the player was "not involved" in that possession so he shouldn't be credited, but if he drew the opponent's best defender away from the ball and created a mismatch somewhere else then he was involved.
Same thing on defense. If a defender does a great job of denying an entry pass to the post late in the clock and the opponent's guard is forced to throw up a contested three-pointer as the clock expires then the defender was responsible for the missed shot even though his man never touched the ball.
I'm not sure trying to define which players were "involved" in each play so as to improve the individual ratings is actually effective. Sometimes the involvement isn't readily obvious.
As for Andre Drummond, he played in the blowout against Miami on Dwyane Wade night, which was kind of a perfect storm of a bad game. With only six Cavs games on his plate that one bad game skews his stats. Looking at his defensive rating over 50 games with the Pistons he was actually one of the better defenders on the team. Part of that was he gets a lot of steals. Just based on watching him for a few games I wouldn't say he's an elite defensive player by any means. He's more of a Kevin Love type - his game is scoring and defensive rebounds.