Andre Drummond - LeBron's Robin

[stowfan]

Had 27 points, 13 rebounds, and somehow managed a -18 this evening?

 

[Cavatt]

He's bad contesting shots. His hands aren't up. He doesn't have much explosion, which is why he gets blocked. Doesn't keep the ball high.

I'd like to see him turn it over less.

People were saying, "He's just 26!". But really he should not be playing so recklessly at this age. Somebody needs to get through to him that he needs to play the right way or he will always be on bad teams

I'm hoping Tristan looking much better every night and closing games gets him to reflect.

Drummond said himself tonight that he thought he would pick up the offense faster than he has. It's not fair to judge him quite yet.

 

[Murph]

He's bad contesting shots. His hands aren't up. He doesn't have much explosion, which is why he gets blocked. Doesn't keep the ball high.

I'd like to see him turn it over less.

People were saying, "He's just 26!". But really he should not be playing so recklessly at this age. Somebody needs to get through to him that he needs to play the right way or he will always be on bad teams

I'm hoping Tristan looking much better every night and closing games gets him to reflect.

Drummond said himself tonight that he thought he would pick up the offense faster than he has. It's not fair to judge him quite yet.

All great points. Drummond never had a problem with is +\- numbers in Detroit. His +\- numbers were always good, and his offensive vs defensive ratings per 100 possessions were always good. And whenever he was surrounded by just a minimum level of talent (a healthy Reggie Jackson and Blake Griffin) the team won.

So I have to believe he’s having trouble picking up the Cavs offensive and defensive sets, and that this will improve over time.

In the meantime, it’s not really a bad thing when the Cavs lose. Obi Toppin would look pretty good starting at SF next year.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

JBB was talking yesterday how Nance can play the 3, so we could draft a 4 like Toppin and have Love/Toppin at the 4, Nance/Windler/Cedi at the 3, and Sexton/Garland/Porter sharing the two guard spots. Assuming Dre picks up his option and we resign Zizic we're all set with young, talented, emerging players at every position and only one guy over 30, whose minutes could definitely be managed.

I'd rather get Wiseman but if he's not available then Toppin would work. But we might have to try and extend Dre and I don't know if they want to do that. At least they'll have 30 games to evaluate him this year and there is some great competition coming up, starting with Utah and Rudy Gobert tomorrow.

As for Dre, if he could develop a jump hook like TT he would be almost unstoppable in the paint. He gets blocked when he faces the basket and tries to put the ball on the glass.

He likes to try and steal the ball. I believe he's third in the league in steals, which is impressive for a center, but he also whiffs sometimes which leads to an easy bucket. But he and Nance have been getting quite a few steals lately which usually result in fast break buckets, especially when you have a racehorse like Sexton out in front, so they should keep gambling on defense even if they get burned now and then.

 

[Cavsfan1985]

I’m starting to wonder if we should have just stood pat at the deadline and let Henson and knight role off the books at the end of the year. Having to put up with Drummond at least till the Trade deadline will continue to affect the culture building process. I understand a 30M expiring is a good asset, but think, like Love, they are dragging the rebuild done and causing bad team related habits to form in the younger guys.

I don’t know. We were never going to be able to use the space to sign anyone good. I like the gamble. To me there are two ways to look at it.
1) He is still young, so there is still room for improvement and he still has to get integrated into the system and roster. If he does start to show signs, and we have a good draft, we could be looking at a potential 7/8 seed playoff run next year. If he does not show anything, we either dump him at the deadline or open up a ton of cap in 2021.
2) this is the part I do like, if he does work out he will he off the books in 2021, and we will have a lot of cap room to make a run at a player(high doughtfull) but we will have a ton of room to get picks and players from teams who are making runs at players.

I think it worth the risk.

 

[ajz20]

All great points. Drummond never had a problem with is +\- numbers in Detroit. His +\- numbers were always good, and his offensive vs defensive ratings per 100 possessions were always good. And whenever he was surrounded by just a minimum level of talent (a healthy Reggie Jackson and Blake Griffin) the team won.

So I have to believe he’s having trouble picking up the Cavs offensive and defensive sets, and that this will improve over time.

In the meantime, it’s not really a bad thing when the Cavs lose. Obi Toppin would look pretty good starting at SF next year.

Toppin is not a sf in the nba at all. He is 100 percent pf.

 

[Murph]

Toppin is not a sf in the nba at all. He is 100 percent pf.

Is that true? If so, I stand corrected. On one mock draft I saw listed as a SF/PF.

Also, I saw him listed at 6’8 or 6’9 and 220, which seems about the size of a SF. Of course the NBA is changing with many teams going to smaller line-ups.

Finally, I saw Toppin can shoot the long ball. I see he’s shooting 39% from the 3 point line for Dayton this year. He’s ability to shoot 3s made me think of him as a SF.

But if Toppin is a PF in today’s NBA, the Cavs should look to draft someone else. They already have Love and Nance at PF. The Cavs need an upgrade at their starting SF position.

 

[PIP]

Is that true? If so, I stand corrected. On one mock draft I saw listed as a SF/PF.

Also, I saw him listed at 6’8 or 6’9 and 220, which seems about the size of a SF. Of course the NBA is changing with many teams going to smaller line-ups.

Finally, I saw Toppin can shoot the long ball. I see he’s shooting 39% from the 3 point line for Dayton this year. He’s ability to shoot 3s made me think of him as a SF.

But if Toppin is a PF in today’s NBA, the Cavs should look to draft someone else. They already have Love and Nance at PF. The Cavs need an upgrade at their starting SF position.

The NBA is essentially positonless

 

[The Oi]

The NBA is essentially positonless

Bunch of waffling pussies. Take a stand on SOMETHING FFS right?

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

But if Toppin is a PF in today’s NBA, the Cavs should look to draft someone else. They already have Love and Nance at PF. The Cavs need an upgrade at their starting SF position.

Nance can play the 3. If Toppin is the best player they should draft him.

The big decision is whether to try and sign Drummond to a long term deal or let him go after next season and use the $28 million to sign a less expensive center who can shoot 3's.

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

Had 27 points, 13 rebounds, and somehow managed a -18 this evening?

I'm sure a big part of that was he mostly played against the Pacers' starters, who are really good, but Drummond struggled defensively. His man would set a screen on whoever was guarding T.J. Warren or Malcolm Brogdon, both of whom are excellent mid-range jump shooters. They dribbled around the screen and Drummond would drop off, fearing if he got too close they would blow by him. He gave up the mid-range jumper and they knocked it down again and again. Those two were a combined 23-for-33.

I'm not saying Drummond was responsible for all their baskets, but I noticed they repeatedly took advantage of him falling back to prevent the layup. That was a big factor in the Pacers outscoring the Cavs by 18 points with Dre on the floor, despite the 27 points, 4 assists, and 4 steals.

Drummond, after six games, ranks last on the Cavaliers in defensive rating and it's not close. With Drummond on the floor the Cavs are giving up just under 127 points per 100 possessions. The next worst is Sexton at 117. I know it's a small sample of only six games, but the numbers are striking and they match up with what I'm seeing on the court. Drummond is pretty good at rebounding missed shots but he's not good at making opponents miss.

Players Advanced | Stats | NBA.com

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To be fair, Andre was 4th best in defensive rating on the Pistons among their rotation players at just under 111 points. Maybe he's at 127 with the Cavs due to unfamiliarity with his teammates, or because the other Cavs starters are so weak defensively. It's something to watch the rest of the season.

 

[Jordan]

I'm sure a big part of that was he mostly played against the Pacers' starters, who are really good, but Drummond struggled defensively. His man would set a screen on whoever was guarding T.J. Warren or Malcolm Brogdon, both of whom are excellent mid-range jump shooters. They dribbled around the screen and Drummond would drop off, fearing if he got too close they would blow by him. He gave up the mid-range jumper and they knocked it down again and again. Those two were a combined 23-for-33.

I'm not saying Drummond was responsible for all their baskets, but I noticed they repeatedly took advantage of him falling back to prevent the layup. That was a big factor in the Pacers outscoring the Cavs by 18 points with Dre on the floor, despite the 27 points, 4 assists, and 4 steals.

Drummond, after six games, ranks last on the Cavaliers in defensive rating and it's not close. With Drummond on the floor the Cavs are giving up just under 127 points per 100 possessions. The next worst is Sexton at 117. I know it's a small sample of only six games, but the numbers are striking and they match up with what I'm seeing on the court. Drummond is pretty good at rebounding missed shots but he's not good at making opponents miss.

Players Advanced | Stats | NBA.com

A table featuring advanced information for each player in the league based on selected filters.

stats.nba.com

To be fair, Andre was 4th best in defensive rating on the Pistons among their rotation players at just under 111 points. Maybe he's at 127 with the Cavs due to unfamiliarity with his teammates, or because the other Cavs starters are so weak defensively. It's something to watch the rest of the season.

The Pacers took 28 shots when Drummond was the primary defender, Drummond contested 22 of them, and they made 16 of them for 44 points on 64.3% shooting! He only had four box outs all night. He had a horrendous defensive game. (Stats located https://stats.nba.com/game/0021900890/defense/ and https://stats.nba.com/game/0021900890/advanced/)

Unlike the defense, I actually think the offense will improve as Drummond gets used to playing with these guys. Per Synergy, Drummond is running post-ups on 24% of all offensive possesions. This is an incredibly inefficient offense. Tristan is averaging post-ups on 8.2% of plays and that leads to more efficient offense.

I think and hope this offensive problem will change as Drummond learns the system.

 

[Murph]

I'm sure a big part of that was he mostly played against the Pacers' starters, who are really good, but Drummond struggled defensively. His man would set a screen on whoever was guarding T.J. Warren or Malcolm Brogdon, both of whom are excellent mid-range jump shooters. They dribbled around the screen and Drummond would drop off, fearing if he got too close they would blow by him. He gave up the mid-range jumper and they knocked it down again and again. Those two were a combined 23-for-33.

I'm not saying Drummond was responsible for all their baskets, but I noticed they repeatedly took advantage of him falling back to prevent the layup. That was a big factor in the Pacers outscoring the Cavs by 18 points with Dre on the floor, despite the 27 points, 4 assists, and 4 steals.

Drummond, after six games, ranks last on the Cavaliers in defensive rating and it's not close. With Drummond on the floor the Cavs are giving up just under 127 points per 100 possessions. The next worst is Sexton at 117. I know it's a small sample of only six games, but the numbers are striking and they match up with what I'm seeing on the court. Drummond is pretty good at rebounding missed shots but he's not good at making opponents miss.

[URL
unfurl="true"]https://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612739&CF=MIN*G*5[/URL]

To be fair, Andre was 4th best in defensive rating on the Pistons among their rotation players at just under 111 points. Maybe he's at 127 with the Cavs due to unfamiliarity with his teammates, or because the other Cavs starters are so weak defensively. It's something to watch the rest of the season.

The stat site that I look at shows something very different.

Andre Drummond Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Andre Drummond. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

It shows that Drummond led the Pistons in defensive rating this year with 102 point allowed per 100 possessions. It also shows Drummond leading the Cavs (for any significant minutes played) in defensive rating through 6 games with a 106 rating.

these numbers are fairly consistent with what Drummond has been putting up for his career.

 

[Cavatt]

The stat site that I look at shows something very different.

Andre Drummond Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Andre Drummond. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com

www.basketball-reference.com

It shows that Drummond led the Pistons in defensive rating this year with 102 point allowed per 100 possessions. It also shows Drummond leading the Cavs (for any significant minutes played) in defensive rating through 6 games with a 106 rating.

these numbers are fairly consistent with what Drummond has been putting up for his career.

102 would be elite defense. He hasn't looked like an elite defender so far.

 

[Jordan]

102 would be elite defense. He hasn't looked like an elite defender so far.

It's almost like defensive rating is not an individual stat or something...