The 2020 Cleveland Indians

Steve_424 said:

Curious to see how this:

- Impacts negotiations with Lindor
- Impacts potential buyers of the team

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Lindor to sign with a team in China that can provide him with the vaccine.

Wham with the Right Hand said:

By the way, they could save another $17 million by trading Carrasco (33) and Hand (30) which would bring the payroll down to about $35 million.

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In a mansion somewhere, Paul Dolan's ears are burning.

sportscoach said:

I have an idea, though a bit odd, (but I am good with those), Maybe we do the regular season until a certain date and then after that finish the season with games in Arizona/Florida to make the season longer then host the World Series in a neutral warm/southern location?

@Derek, maybe base it off of who is the home team with my suggestion.

If the whole season is in the arizona/florida then we should allow the teams to decide. I would honestly say DH for everyone would be better.

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They can't pick up the regular season because that would involve teams flying all over the country, riding busses, staying in different hotels, etc. The whole point of playing in Arizona and Florida is the players would be quarantined, staying in the same hotel, and no traveling except from the hotel to the ballparks by car.

Even if they could do it safely, flying players around the country on road trips would cost a lot of money and since they aren't selling tickets or getting any revenue from parking and concessions it wouldn't be cost effective.

Wham with the Right Hand said:

They can't pick up the regular season because that would involve teams flying all over the country, riding busses, staying in different hotels, etc. The whole point of playing in Arizona and Florida is the players would be quarantined, staying in the same hotel, and no traveling except from the hotel to the ballparks by car.

Even if they could do it safely, flying players around the country on road trips would cost a lot of money and since they aren't selling tickets or getting any revenue from parking and concessions it wouldn't be cost effective.

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The travel costs are a pittance compared with the salaries, and it's having to pay all those salaries with no fans in the stands that would kill the owners.

Details of South Korea's restart that are relevant to anything MLB tries:


Looks like they are using a 3-week leaguewide delay for any known infected player or staff.

Taiwan has been "so far, so good" on the start of their league; knock on wood.

The Human Q-Tip said:

The travel costs are a pittance compared with the salaries, and it's having to pay all those salaries with no fans in the stands that would kill the owners.

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The travel costs are one thing, but what housekeeper at the Renaissance Phoenix or clubhouse laundryman is going to willingly quarantine themselves from their families/life for three months for $12 an hour?

This whole BioDome season idea is a pipe dream and one COVID hotspot away from an actual tragic scenario.

Reportedly the new plan is to play games in Arizona, Florida AND Texas which would give them access to five stadiums with roofs. Doing the math, ten teams could play at a time. With 30 teams you would have a daily schedule of games at noon, 4 pm, and 8 pm. All games indoors with A/C.

There would have to be some road trips between the three states, I assume.

Extra inning games would start each inning with a runner on second base. I like the idea of no mound visits. Keep the game moving. I would allow a brief mound visit by the catcher once an inning in the event they need to get their signs straight. I would also enforce the 40-second clock on the pitcher with no runners on. And I mean ENFORCE it. Basketball players can't wait 60 seconds to shoot a free throw or inbound the ball or get the ball over the mid-court line. Football has a play clock and basketball has a shot clock. Put a clock on the damn pitchers. They'll adjust.

I would also limit pick-off throws to three throws per at-bat. IOW, if a runner is on first the pitcher can only throw over three times per batter. If he throws three times and fails to pick him off then the runner can obviously take a huge lead and easily steal second. The effect would be to eliminate soft tosses to first which are just intended to stall. It would effectively limit the pitcher to actual pick-off attempts.

How often have we heard fans booing as the pitcher lobs it over to first base for the 5th time? That needs to be eliminated. Either try to pick the runner off or pitch the damn ball. As a bonus we would probably get more stolen base attempts with a pickoff limit. Since pitchers would have to pick their spots runners might take bigger leads. More action, less stalling.

He good.

Wham with the Right Hand said:

Reportedly the new plan is to play games in Arizona, Florida AND Texas which would give them access to five stadiums with roofs. Doing the math, ten teams could play at a time. With 30 teams you would have a daily schedule of games at noon, 4 pm, and 8 pm. All games indoors with A/C.

There would have to be some road trips between the three states, I assume.

Extra inning games would start each inning with a runner on second base. I like the idea of no mound visits. Keep the game moving. I would allow a brief mound visit by the catcher once an inning in the event they need to get their signs straight. I would also enforce the 40-second clock on the pitcher with no runners on. And I mean ENFORCE it. Basketball players can't wait 60 seconds to shoot a free throw or inbound the ball or get the ball over the mid-court line. Football has a play clock and basketball has a shot clock. Put a clock on the damn pitchers. They'll adjust.

I would also limit pick-off throws to three throws per at-bat. IOW, if a runner is on first the pitcher can only throw over three times per batter. If he throws three times and fails to pick him off then the runner can obviously take a huge lead and easily steal second. The effect would be to eliminate soft tosses to first which are just intended to stall. It would effectively limit the pitcher to actual pick-off attempts.

How often have we heard fans booing as the pitcher lobs it over to first base for the 5th time? That needs to be eliminated. Either try to pick the runner off or pitch the damn ball. As a bonus we would probably get more stolen base attempts with a pickoff limit. Since pitchers would have to pick their spots runners might take bigger leads. More action, less stalling.

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Can you link me to some of this?

I'm confused by the talk of rule changes that have nothing to do with our current situation.

Derek said:

Can you link me to some of this?

I'm confused by the talk of rule changes that have nothing to do with our current situation.

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It's from Hoynes' Q & A column this morning, at the bottom.


I was thinking that if they have to play three games per day in the same facility they would have to make sure the games lasted under 3.5 hours, assuming they were scheduled four hours apart. The issue of games getting longer has been there for a few years now, but if multiple games were being played on the same day it would put even more pressure on speeding up the games.

Obviously the pitch clock has already been put in, although it's rarely enforced. There has been discussion of limiting mound visits and putting a runner on second base to start the inning when it goes to extras. These are ideas already on the table. I just added the pickoff throw idea because pitchers use it as a tool to stall for time and there is an effort to speed up the game and eliminate down time.

They've also put in a rule against batters stepping out of the box between pitches with nobody on base, if I'm not mistaken. And of course the three-batter rule for relief pitchers.

If we have an abbreviated season it seems like the ideal time to try some new things designed to minimize stalling by batters (the Mike Hargrove human rain delay thing), by pitchers (multiple soft tosses to first and mound visits by catchers), and by managers (mound visits intended just to buy time for relievers to warm up and using 3-4 relief pitchers in one inning).

Wham with the Right Hand said:

It's from Hoynes' Q & A column this morning, at the bottom.

Where have all the free agent Cleveland Indians gone? Hey, Hoynsie!

For the third straight year the Indians had a lot of players hit the free agent market after the 2019 season. Here's an update on how some of them are doing.

www.cleveland.com

I was thinking that if they have to play three games per day in the same facility they would have to make sure the games lasted under 3.5 hours, assuming they were scheduled four hours apart. The issue of games getting longer has been there for a few years now, but if multiple games were being played on the same day it would put even more pressure on speeding up the games.

Obviously the pitch clock has already been put in, although it's rarely enforced. There has been discussion of limiting mound visits and putting a runner on second base to start the inning when it goes to extras. These are ideas already on the table. I just added the pickoff throw idea because pitchers use it as a tool to stall for time and there is an effort to speed up the game and eliminate down time.

They've also put in a rule against batters stepping out of the box between pitches with nobody on base, if I'm not mistaken. And of course the three-batter rule for relief pitchers.

If we have an abbreviated season it seems like the ideal time to try some new things designed to minimize stalling by batters (the Mike Hargrove human rain delay thing), by pitchers (multiple soft tosses to first and mound visits by catchers), and by managers (mound visits intended just to buy time for relievers to warm up and using 3-4 relief pitchers in one inning).

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I don't believe they would be exclusively playing games in the big league parks. The spring training sites would obviously be available as well.

The extra innings runner seems bush league. That seems like something a 14U tournament would do. I see no reason to institute something like that at the major league level. The pace of play concern is about cutting out the downtime, not the actual gameplay.

I just can't see limiting pick off throws either. It is way too advantageous for the runner.

Derek said:

I don't believe they would be exclusively playing games in the big league parks. The spring training sites would obviously be available as well.

The extra innings runner seems bush league. That seems like something a 14U tournament would do. I see no reason to institute something like that at the major league level. The pace of play concern is about cutting out the downtime, not the actual gameplay.

I just can't see limiting pick off throws either. It is way too advantageous for the runner.

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I could see playing at 1 pm and 7 pm in the big league parks and 7 pm in minor league parks. That way there are no concerns about the length of games, but it might still be too hot to play in Arizona. But since most of these guys grew up playing in Puerto Rico, the Dominican, or Venezuela they are used to the heat.

A lot of them are from Texas and Florida as well.

I think the pickoff rule could work. If the runner takes too big a lead he gets picked off. The pitcher would get three cracks at him until the next batter comes up. If he doesn't take a big enough lead where the pitcher thinks he can get him then he doesn't throw over.

What I'm trying to get away from is when the runner has a one-step lead and is just standing there and the pitcher lobs it over because the manager told him to stall until the reliever is ready. Throw in a mound visit by the pitching coach, a few more soft tosses to first, shaking off a few signs followed by the conference with the catcher....I'd like to get rid of all of that. But I doubt it happens.

I heard that baseball has the oldest fan base of the three major sports. The young sports fans aren't as into baseball as in the past and that's partly because of all the stalling by pitchers, batters, and managers as well as the excessive pitching changes as managers play the matchup game. The owners will do whatever is necessary to increase the action and decrease the standing around. Who ever thought we'd see a rule that says a manager can't take out a pitcher whenever he wants to? Or that a pitcher has to throw a pitch before he wants to? Or that a batter can't step out whenever he wants to and take all the time he wants playing with this batting gloves between every pitch?

Wham with the Right Hand said:

I could see playing at 1 pm and 7 pm in the big league parks and 7 pm in minor league parks. That way there are no concerns about the length of games, but it might still be too hot to play in Arizona. But since most of these guys grew up playing in Puerto Rico, the Dominican, or Venezuela they are used to the heat.

A lot of them are from Texas and Florida as well.

I think the pickoff rule could work. If the runner takes too big a lead he gets picked off. The pitcher would get three cracks at him until the next batter comes up. If he doesn't take a big enough lead where the pitcher thinks he can get him then he doesn't throw over.

What I'm trying to get away from is when the runner has a one-step lead and is just standing there and the pitcher lobs it over because the manager told him to stall until the reliever is ready. Throw in a mound visit by the pitching coach, a few more soft tosses to first, shaking off a few signs followed by the conference with the catcher....I'd like to get rid of all of that. But I doubt it happens.

I heard that baseball has the oldest fan base of the three major sports. The young sports fans aren't as into baseball as in the past and that's partly because of all the stalling by pitchers, batters, and managers as well as the excessive pitching changes as managers play the matchup game. The owners will do whatever is necessary to increase the action and decrease the standing around. Who ever thought we'd see a rule that says a manager can't take out a pitcher whenever he wants to? Or that a pitcher has to throw a pitch before he wants to? Or that a batter can't step out whenever he wants to and take all the time he wants playing with this batting gloves between every pitch?

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All the stuff you're listing are pauses in the game action though. I just can't envision your proposed pick off rule. I mean, after three attempts, the baserunner can walk to the next base unimpeded. That seems silly to me. I think you're underestimating the ability of baserunners to take a huge lead that would still allow them to retreat to the bag. I could actually see it slowing the game down because more runners would be trying to bait throws.

Baseball's issue is a PR problem more than anything actually related to the game. They do an absolutely horrendous job marketing their stars.

Derek said:

All the stuff you're listing are pauses in the game action though. I just can't envision your proposed pick off rule. I mean, after three attempts, the baserunner can walk to the next base unimpeded. That seems silly to me. I think you're underestimating the ability of baserunners to take a huge lead that would still allow them to retreat to the bag. I could actually see it slowing the game down because more runners would be trying to bait throws.

Baseball's issue is a PR problem more than anything actually related to the game. They do an absolutely horrendous job marketing their stars.

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If the pitcher used up his three pickoff throws and the runner was still on base he couldn't just walk unimpeded to the next base. If he took off the pitcher could throw to the next base. He would be throwing out a runner attempting to steal, not trying to pick him off.

He could take a huge lead, however, and take off when the pitcher started his motion which would result in an easy steal. So the pitcher wouldn't attempt a third pickoff throw unless the lead was so large that he was confident he would get the guy.

I'll admit this isn't going to happen. Enforcing the 40-second rule for pitchers and the rule that prohibits batters from stepping out will keep the at-bats moving. Add a rule prohibiting mound visits by managers and pitching coaches. If the manager wants to make a pitching change he just tells the umpire. They already put in the automatic intentional walk rule and the three-batter rule. All this might be enough.

I'm just trying to figure out a way to prevent pitchers from playing catch with the first baseman while buying time for the reliever to get warm. Maybe some things can't be fixed, or don't need to.

Edit:

It just occurred to me that making it easier to steal by limiting pickoff attempts (or some other way) would be good for the game. Getting runners on base would be more important if stealing a base is easier. A walk with the bases empty would be like a double if you have a guy who runs well.

As a result there would be less three true outcome players and more guys who just try to get on and use their speed. As it stands now there are too many walks, strikeouts, and home runs and not enough action. More baserunners and stolen base attempts (both successful and unsuccessful) would add to the appeal of a game that is devolving into a lot of standing around.

Wham with the Right Hand said:

If the pitcher used up his three pickoff throws and the runner was still on base he couldn't just walk unimpeded to the next base. If he took off the pitcher could throw to the next base. He would be throwing out a runner attempting to steal, not trying to pick him off.

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How do you define the difference in the actual rule?

Logically, defining the rule as the pitcher throwing to the base is the way to go, but that prevents the pitcher from throwing to second if the runner is stealing.

If you make an exception for the runner being in motion, what if the pitcher says the runner was leaning off first?

It sounds like a pretty dumb rule that would be nearly impossible to enforce correctly, and likely leads to reviews, discussions, and complications that make the game longer and worse, which is the problem you're trying to solve to begin with.

If they're allowed to throw to another base without considering that a pick off, then they would just do that repeatedly and say "I thought he was taking off".

That just makes it worse.