2020 Around the MLB Thread

LL3 said:

It will have to be a pretty low $ “1”

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Wouldn’t shock me to see him join a team in 2021 as an NRI in spring training

on the field, has it been noted that after more than a year and a half ohtani got a start yesterday - faced 6 batters - give up 3 hits and 3 walks

Derek said:

Wouldn’t shock me to see him join a team in 2021 as an NRI in spring training

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If he doesn't come back and put up some quality innings, he could likely be reduced to that.

I pop in from time to time here and thought I'd catch up on the chatter of the Marlins' news and see what interesting conversation that lead to.....



I genuinely adore Indians threads, even though I don't often participate........you guys are all insane and I love you.

Kluber has been diagnosed with a grade 2 strain of the Teres Major.. he'll be shut down for four weeks then re-evaluated.. Clevinger had the same thing.. I don't recall the degree of the strain.. So, it's good news that Kluber doesn't have a major / career threatening capsule issue with his shoulder. There is a pretty good chance that the Rangers.. will stand behind Kluber through the 2020 season. The 2021 season and Kluber's option could be denied by the Rangers.. making Kluber a FA..

Thoughts?

AZ_ said:

Or, if one was to think about this a bit more broadly (intelligently), statistics help players and coaches calibrate their instincts and intuition.

While the purpose of your shtick here was likely just to present a false choice, where we must choose one or the other, that is obviously nonsensical and bordering on the more "trollish" side of discussion.


For the others who likely already understood how the blending of statistics with natural abilities work, hopefully it can serve as a reminder. People can enjoy the NFL for a linebacker learning how to fill gaps and read the offensive line to make a play, they don't denigrate him for studying the tendencies of the other team which helps him fine tune that action.


Literally nobody is asking you to dive into SQL and pull out data that you don't understand, I hope you can at least try to respect others interest in it. It has absolutely zero effect on your ability to take in a game and measure intuition or instinct, or guts, or (insert intangible quality that still exists).

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If I remember correctly, you originally came here to increase your basketball knowledge as you knew baseball and football really well. Like you I am very knowledgeable in two sports...basketball and football....but more of a slightly above casual fan in baseball. You and some others have taught me a ton about modern baseball and being a numbers guy, i love the stats personally when taught to me. I feel a ton more knowledgeable because of this section. With the new posters adding, this section is humming with good banter and great knowledge, money ball stats and all, lol

Gson said:

Kluber has been diagnosed with a grade 2 strain of the Teres Major.. he'll be shut down for four weeks then re-evaluated.. Clevinger had the same thing.. I don't recall the degree of the strain.. So, it's good news that Kluber doesn't have a major / career threatening capsule issue with his shoulder. There is a pretty good chance that the Rangers.. will stand behind Kluber through the 2020 season. The 2021 season and Kluber's option could be denied by the Rangers.. making Kluber a FA..

Thoughts?

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Best guess, does Kluber make the HOF? Right now even with 2 Cy Youngs he is not in imo. Less than 100 victories....needs to be at least over 150 to get in...34, pitches till 30 needs 8 or 9 a year to make it.....with his arm issues he might not get there. I compared him to Kofax who had 3 cy young's and a more dominate peak with 160 wins to get in.

Good as any section to discuss...I think its an interesting discussion.

Lee said:

Best guess, does Kluber make the HOF? Right now even with 2 Cy Youngs he is not in imo. Less than 100 victories....needs to be at least over 150 to get in...34, pitches till 30 needs 8 or 9 a year to make it.....with his arm issues he might not get there. I compared him to Kofax who had 3 cy young's and a more dominate peak with 160 wins to get in.

Good as any section to discuss...I think its an interesting discussion.

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It's the Hall of Fame.. not the Hall of pretty darn good players.. He'll get some consideration.. but, only some.. and certainly not enough to be enshrined..

Thoughts?..

Gson said:

Kluber has been diagnosed with a grade 2 strain of the Teres Major.. he'll be shut down for four weeks then re-evaluated.. Clevinger had the same thing.. I don't recall the degree of the strain.. So, it's good news that Kluber doesn't have a major / career threatening capsule issue with his shoulder. There is a pretty good chance that the Rangers.. will stand behind Kluber through the 2020 season. The 2021 season and Kluber's option could be denied by the Rangers.. making Kluber a FA..

Thoughts?

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Hard to believe they pick up that option at around 18m...not really pitching well as a starter in 2 years.

Lee said:

Best guess, does Kluber make the HOF? Right now even with 2 Cy Youngs he is not in imo. Less than 100 victories....needs to be at least over 150 to get in...34, pitches till 30 needs 8 or 9 a year to make it.....with his arm issues he might not get there. I compared him to Kofax who had 3 cy young's and a more dominate peak with 160 wins to get in.

Good as any section to discuss...I think its an interesting discussion.

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My concern with Kluber is he will be stuck in between eras. I don't think the traditional 'benchmark' numbers of the past are going to be attainable going forward with how much less pitchers throw now compared to even 25 years ago, let alone longer.

I think those benchmarks will come down over time, and my concern is Kluber will get left out of the coming changes.

I actually think Cliff Lee is closer to HOF stats than Kluber.


Cy Young
4x All-Star
ERA Title
65

34

31

34

36
33

33

SUMMARY
Career
WAR
43.2
W
143
L
91
ERA
3.52

Kluber
Career
WAR
-
32.2
W
0
98
L
0
58
ERA
0.00
3.16
G
1
209
GS
1
204
SV
0
0
IP
1.0
1342.2
SO
1
1462
WHIP
1.000
1.086

DCTribefan said:

I actually think Cliff Lee is closer to HOF stats than Kluber.


Cy Young
4x All-Star
ERA Title
65

34

31

34

36
33

33

SUMMARY
Career
WAR
43.2
W
143
L
91
ERA
3.52

Kluber
Career
WAR
-
32.2
W
0
98
L
0
58
ERA
0.00
3.16
G
1
209
GS
1
204
SV
0
0
IP
1.0
1342.2
SO
1
1462
WHIP
1.000
1.086

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Your post is a bit hard to read. But those numbers are interesting.

Gson said:

Kluber has been diagnosed with a grade 2 strain of the Teres Major.. he'll be shut down for four weeks then re-evaluated.. Clevinger had the same thing.. I don't recall the degree of the strain.. So, it's good news that Kluber doesn't have a major / career threatening capsule issue with his shoulder. There is a pretty good chance that the Rangers.. will stand behind Kluber through the 2020 season. The 2021 season and Kluber's option could be denied by the Rangers.. making Kluber a FA..

Thoughts?

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Honestly, my thoughts are i'm really glad we moved him when we did. I'm glad we got his best years. An all time great for the Tribe . . .

Lee said:

Best guess, does Kluber make the HOF? Right now even with 2 Cy Youngs he is not in imo. Less than 100 victories....needs to be at least over 150 to get in...34, pitches till 30 needs 8 or 9 a year to make it.....with his arm issues he might not get there. I compared him to Kofax who had 3 cy young's and a more dominate peak with 160 wins to get in.

Good as any section to discuss...I think its an interesting discussion.

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@DCTribefan brought up Cliff Lee, who is a decent comparison.

Despite debuting with the Indians at 24, Lee didn't really break out until his age 29 going on 30 season in 2008 when he won the Cy Young. Lee had a dominant 6 year stretch where he was one of the best starters in baseball from 08-13

Similarly, Kluber debuted at 25 and certainly showed flashes in 2013, but it wasn't until his age 28 season in 2014 where he really broke out and won his first Cy Young. Similarly, to Lee, Kluber was dominant and one of the best pitchers in baseball from 2014 to 2018

Cliff Lee pitched 2156 2/3 innings in his career and accumulated 48.2 WAR. Kluber has pitched 1342 2/3 and has accumulated 34.6 WAR. So Kluber, who is likely to be 35 before he pitches again, still has quite a bit of work to do to catch Cliff Lee.

The same Cliff Lee who obtained 0.5% of votes on his first HOF ballot and is already off the ballot.

Kluber and Lee were dominant guys but just don't have the body of work over years and years unfortunately. The starter with the least amount of innings pitched in the Hall is Dizzy Dean with 1967 1/3. Again, to his age 34 season, Kluber is only 2/3 of the way to scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Kluber is unfortunately a giant longshot to make the HOF.

Lee said:

Best guess, does Kluber make the HOF? Right now even with 2 Cy Youngs he is not in imo. Less than 100 victories....needs to be at least over 150 to get in...34, pitches till 30 needs 8 or 9 a year to make it.....with his arm issues he might not get there. I compared him to Kofax who had 3 cy young's and a more dominate peak with 160 wins to get in.

Good as any section to discuss...I think its an interesting discussion.

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He is not a HOF'r